posted 10-02-2002 02:26 PM            

Pook:

On your first post in this thread, and I've been here quite a while and
I
know what attitudes you hold, you mention that the focus of
conversation
should be on the woman. As quoted:

2) Don't talk about yourself! (Focus the conversation on her or on her
interests. Only mention things about you if they are the same: "Yes, I
think the same about parrots being evil too." So many women have said
that
I'm a 'mystery'. "Is this good?" "Yes" This is because when I do
comment
on myself, it is very vague and general. I keep my mouth shut. Also,
you
come across as a good listener. A good listener is the most sexiest
trait
a guy can have.)

Now, earlier in your critique of Speed Seduction and debate against
PDX,
you said you are against it because the focus seems to be on the woman,
it
uses the concept of demonstrating value which again you think focuses
on
the woman.

Now, can you some how explain or rationalize the above quote with your
critiques? What are your intentions of focusing on the conversation on
the woman? If you are conversing for yourself, should you not at least
talk about the things you find interesting? Or if you want to go the
middle route, things you BOTH find interesting? Why are you
manipulating
the converstation to please the woman and keep her interested? For
who's
sake are you being a mystery? Unto yourself? What value is there in
worrying over whether or not you come across as a good listener, or
worrying what traits you pass off to her. Could it be that you're
trying
to impress her in some way? Would that not be trying to demonstrate
some
sort of value to her?

Now, it could be that that post is old since it is the first one in the
thread, but then you'll need to clarify that you don't ascribe to that
anymore. To me, the only way you can keep your philosophy consistent
of
"having the focus on you" is speaking your mind, saying whatever you
feel
like it without regard to what the girl is thinking or how she is
evaluating what you are saying. Not "focusing the conversation on
her".

Now, if you hold onto the thought that techniques in and of themselves
that focus on the girl go against what you think, then I think there is
a
fair number of material on this site that you are going to have to
speak
out against to avoid being a hypocrite. Most of the DJ Bible is tips
and
techniques on seduction, there are a lot of "canned" stuff in there
even
conversationally. Holding the truths to be that you are against
demonstrating value (rather value be assigned to you indirectly through
self-improvement) against the guys analyzing women and flirting (this
would be teasing, playful statements of interest, or showing signs of
interest) and against putting focus on the woman, I want you to speak
out
against the following:

Canned Openers
cocky+funny examples
Neg hits
Waiting a certain number of days to call
Consciously trying to become a mystery or challenge
Playing hard to get
Patterns/SS (of course)
Any conscious changing of personality/lifestyle for the sake of women

Field Reports (would be analyzing the interactions with women, no need
when there is only talk of number and date)
Analyzing her interest level (Major Doc Love thing - not only is this
needless analyzation, but also putting complete focus on her and HER
interest level rather your interest level on her)
Trying to impress
Trying to be funny
Focusing the conversation on her

In essence, you will have to speak out against sosuave, because if
everyone were philosophizing simply on the nature of man and woman like
yourself, preaching self-improvement and against technique, then this
place would cease to exist.
This whole forum full of non-SSers is tantamount to the focus all the
men
here have placed on women. Venting, venting, and more venting,
frustration. It isn't evidence for the devouring nature of women, it
is
evidence for the amount of focus you have placed on them and the way it
has allowed them to affect your lives. Post after post, time wasted
that
you could be "improving" yourself, reading a book, working out,
working,
school, job.

Step up to the plate, or remain the illogical prophet of sosuave.

P.S. For all you puzzies who like the *truth* so much, face it. Either
think for yourself in which case you are open to new ideas, or continue
sucking an entire forum/poster's dyck.

posted 10-02-2002 03:12 PM            

When most people came to this board, they were desperate(myself included), they had no clue and were anxious to learn how to seduce and raise interest level. After awhile this interest-raising skill could be mastered and the DJ knew he could have just about if not any girl he wanted. It in effect, was no longer a challenge, the tables had turned.

Now this is the point that seperates the SSers from the DJs(i see them as two different groups), the Djs asks "Why?". Why do i want to take the time to learn and practice these techniques when its already so easy? What is the need for techniques when theyre already coming in droves without me lifting a finger? Why should I convey my value to her! It should be her conveying value to me! The Dj realises this, and does away with any techniques.

Its the transformation that takes place, the AFC to the DJ, the chaser to the chased! Unfortunately(or fortunately), the SSers never quite grasp this, they dont realise they dont have to chase anymore. Or maybe its as simple as them enjoying the hunt. But can you really call shooting fish in a barrel hunting?

Pook doesnt need to speak out against sosuave in order not to be a hypocrite, he just cant use the techniques that he know works. It doesnt mean he has to reject his old posts either, he was helping people that did not yet know those techniques. He doesnt have to use the techniques anymore, nor do many of the Djs on this site.

Answer me this garp, trickynick, or anyone arguing against what pook has been preaching. Why compete for girls, when theyre already competing for you?

posted 10-02-2002 04:57 PM            

If this is the case, than the reason that I personally practice speed seduction is because I realized that my "DJ Skillz" were NOT ENOUGH to attract ANY woman that I wanted. Challenge, mystery, telephone rules, are all great for beginners. They will help to attract some girls. But the problem that I have with the DJ way, is that if you want to get laid, you have to hope that the woman is attracted to you and your personality.

DJs demonstrate no VALUE you really, besides their looks and humor. And if a woman doesn't value humor, you're really screwed because you have nothing that she wants. Different women value different traits. You can't possess a generic list of traits and assume that every woman will find you attractive because of them. It won't happen.

Of course the hardcore DJs will say, "It's not about giving her what she wants, it's about her giving you what YOU want". That's a cute little saying, but try providing NO value to a woman and see how long she sticks around for. It's great to say, "oh well, she was so hot and I'd drink her bathwater, but oh well, i'm a DJ if she didn't want me oh well", but that is not going to get you laid with this girl.

Speed Seduction is more short term. It is for guys who see the physical, sexual value in girls. They want to get laid, fast. I am one of these guys. Speed Seduction allows you to figure out what is important to a woman, and when you've found that out TRANSFORM the appearence she has of you, to fit a very attractive man.

Basically DJ = "Here I am if you don't like me then NEXT!"

Speed Seduction = "What do you want?", then magically become him in her eyes.

posted 10-02-2002 05:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by xblitz44x:
[b] [QUOTE]Why compete for girls, when theyre already competing for you?

---

If this is the case, than the reason that I personally practice speed seduction is because I realized that my "DJ Skillz" were NOT ENOUGH to attract ANY woman that I wanted. Challenge, mystery, telephone rules, are all great for beginners. They will help to attract some girls. But the problem that I have with the DJ way, is that if you want to get laid, you have to hope that the woman is attracted to you and your personality.

DJs demonstrate no VALUE you really, besides their looks and humor. And if a woman doesn't value humor, you're really screwed because you have nothing that she wants. Different women value different traits. You can't possess a generic list of traits and assume that every woman will find you attractive because of them. It won't happen.

Of course the hardcore DJs will say, "It's not about giving her what she wants, it's about her giving you what YOU want". That's a cute little saying, but try providing NO value to a woman and see how long she sticks around for. It's great to say, "oh well, she was so hot and I'd drink her bathwater, but oh well, i'm a DJ if she didn't want me oh well", but that is not going to get you laid with this girl.

Speed Seduction is more short term. It is for guys who see the physical, sexual value in girls. They want to get laid, fast. I am one of these guys. Speed Seduction allows you to figure out what is important to a woman, and when you've found that out TRANSFORM the appearence she has of you, to fit a very attractive man.

Basically DJ = "Here I am if you don't like me then NEXT!"

Speed Seduction = "What do you want?", then magically become him in her eyes.

-Blitz[/B][/QUOTE]

Anybody else say "What a chump" after you read this last reply?

What do you want and then become him for her. jesus christ man pook wasnt kidding about that boy toy stuff.

i realise not everyone was born with great looks or the best personality but that doesnt mean you have to try and become someone else for the time it takes to have sex with a chick.

i mean go to the gym, read some self-help books. I cant believe you can be proud of making a girl see something in you that youre not. Wouldn't you rather actually have that desired trait, instead of making her think you do?

posted 10-02-2002 05:39 PM            

Pook--think of all the symphonies and great art you could have produced in the time it took to think out and write this post. Seems to me that what's consuming your time is your urge to debate with your fellow man here.

It doesn't take much time at all. It just comes naturally to me.

How do I have an urge to 'debate' when I don't post often? How do I have an urge to 'debate' when Trickynick came HERE?

Look, we're getting off topic. I don't say any of this to 'debate' or to kill time. I'm saying it because its my honest analysis. There's a lot of stuff I've been noticing but not saying (partially because I don't want to believe it yet I can't disprove it). I hold out on you guys.

If you really want to distance yourself from women, print this most recent post of yours and read it aloud everytime you get hit on. I can assure you that even the dimmest woman will be repulsed by it.

Hahahha! But I do say this stuff to them! I am around women ALL THE TIME. Every main theme I've had in my posts, I bring it up to them to watch their reaction. I have literally asked women what they define as a 'Man'. And I have actually said to them in that last post.

Did they get repulsed? No, they just get angry. If you ask a woman, "Would you want love or immortality?" they always choose love. Why? Because women don't seem to have the sense of the transcendent spirit. To a woman, hell is to be an old maid.

Everything I have posted here I have said to them. It is 'intellectual' so they don't like it (as practically anything intellectual). I make it up to them by talking about sex (which they love to talk about).

2) Don't talk about yourself! (Focus the conversation on her or on her
interests. Only mention things about you if they are the same: "Yes, I
think the same about parrots being evil too." So many women have said
that
I'm a 'mystery'. "Is this good?" "Yes" This is because when I do
comment
on myself, it is very vague and general. I keep my mouth shut. Also,
you
come across as a good listener. A good listener is the most sexiest
trait
a guy can have.)

Now, earlier in your critique of Speed Seduction and debate against
PDX,
you said you are against it because the focus seems to be on the woman,
it
uses the concept of demonstrating value which again you think focuses
on
the woman.

EXACTLY!

Now, can you some how explain or rationalize the above quote with your
critiques? What are your intentions of focusing on the conversation on
the woman? If you are conversing for yourself, should you not at least
talk about the things you find interesting? Or if you want to go the
middle route, things you BOTH find interesting? Why are you
manipulating
the converstation to please the woman and keep her interested?

But the focus is NOT on her. Only the conversation is focused on her.

Why do you focus the conversation on her? To weed her out. Remember, you are THE PRIZE TO BE WON. She talks about herself and you can gauge: "Is she my type? Should I go for her?" Notice that the focus is still on yourself.

If the conversation was focused on you, you would be seeing HER as the prize. You would end up trying to prove yourself WORTHY to HER!

You must go through many chicks to find a good one. Let them prove themselves to YOU, not the other way around.

One thing I've noticed is that I seem to be doing some of the things of Speed Seduction AUTOMATICALLY without ever doing Speed Seduction!

If she says she likes rock climbing, poetry, and exercise, I, having interest myself in rock climbing, can ask about that. I do it because I am thinking, "Hey, this chick does something that I enjoy doing." It is not, "I want to make this chick think that I enjoy what she does so her panties go down." There is no manipulation. If she has nothing that interests me, I send her on her way and get another chick.

Getting chicks to talk about themselves is great because they are auditioning themselves for you! You can weed them out. She will like this rather than have a guy 'prove' how great he is. She repulses from that. Why? Because we are MEANT to weed them out.

who's
sake are you being a mystery? Unto yourself? What value is there in
worrying over whether or not you come across as a good listener, or
worrying what traits you pass off to her. Could it be that you're
trying
to impress her in some way? Would that not be trying to demonstrate
some
sort of value to her?

But if you notice I never said I TRIED to be a mystery. I only mentioned that women saw me as a mystery, and so I described my actions to another poster who was curious.

When you see yourself as the prize, you are going to weed out chicks (rather than fit yourself to the chick). So you get them to talk of themself and so on to accurately gauge them (is she for you or not?).

Yet, surprisingly, women LIKE you weeding them out! They will say, "What a great listener you are!" Even if you weed her out after listening to her, she is more satisfied since you were acting like a man and weeding out chicks.

Women wants a guy who wants them because of something unique about them. They do not want some desperate loser or a guy who tells them what they want to hear.

In ages past, that was how it was. Men would try to find a chick suitable to them and go through the stack. Nowadays, many men do not do this so it is refreshing when a Man acts like he is supposed to.

In essence, you will have to speak out against sosuave, because if
everyone were philosophizing simply on the nature of man and woman like
yourself, preaching self-improvement and against technique, then this
place would cease to exist.

Notice how the discussion has drifted from the subject and is now on ME? Look, what I am saying in this thread is the same that is in the first post of the DJ Bible: that YOU are the prize to be won!

When I first read SS, I was shocked(probably as everyone else). It really did warp my mind. Could it be true? Could this work with women?

SS tries to understand the nature of women in order to become effective. The shock was not SS; it was the nature of women.

I think SS can be useful in the above way and at putting men at ease with dealings with women. Like I said before, what I protest against is the SPIRIT of SS. That you are to react to her thoughts and interests.

For long term relationships, I don't think SS will create happiness for you.

And I already did 'speak out' against it with this thread. Look at the date of this first post on this thread. This is an old post.

You make it sound as if I've crossed some 'line' and now I must denounce everything. But I am still 100% consistant with the Kill That Desperation! and Be a Man! posts.

In fact, in the Be a Man post, the guy despises being the Nice Guy to seek vengeance by sleeping with as many girls he can. He even accesses a lay-guide. Eventually, he gets tired of it. He will shout, "Why can't I just be myself!?" Why should he have to live for woman's sexual pleasure in order to get his own? (In other words, the thoughts in these recent posts are not new. They were even there at the beginning within the Be a Man post. Why should I denounce anything when I'm being consistant? [And that post has never been edited. Nothing has been added since it was posted YEARS ago.])

This whole forum full of non-SSers is tantamount to the focus all the
men
here have placed on women. Venting, venting, and more venting,
frustration. It isn't evidence for the devouring nature of women, it
is
evidence for the amount of focus you have placed on them and the way it
has allowed them to affect your lives.

This board has changed my life for the better. The reason why I am still here is to repay the debt.

No, there are not many posts on the 'devouring nature of women'. The 'nature of women' posts I HAVE put out I do not enjoy. There is always more to be posted.

The focus is life not women. Do I post here everyday? No. I'm off doing other things. Yet, how many people complain that I don't respond to them!?

Man and Woman feed off of each other. Many men have found their idealization through the woman. Yet, women can also undo men. (I can post more on this).

BTW, I do write books, work-out, plays, etc.

ESPN says,

I didn't get this one, seems that you keep looking to the others to see if they are acting superior or inferior to you, and then you create a whole philosophy and rationalization around a more superior way of acting to integrate this in your daily life(ex: playing hard to get), not there is something wrong with that, again, this is just a TASTE

No, I am saying that only to say that sex is not an achievement in itself. Many former niceguys/afcs (as I am one) think that once we're able to play the game. As a result, we get vain. ("I'm getting laid regularly! I am a sex god! Whooo!")

Depends of what you consider as a achievement, again TASTE
Pook isn't you doing the whole "Focus in life, not woman" for YOUR personal satisfaction, your personal happiness? And anything different from this is saw by you as ''inferior way for me'' so your path became YOUR way to HONOR your self?
And isn't a speed seducer doing the same thing?

Why have I become the subject now? Look, the greatest pleasure for any guy is to be a Man. Yes, it may seem nice to sleep and entertain oneself for eons. Yet, there is a satisfying fruit in one's labor. There is a peace in having such a 'warrior' style sense, where you FIX problems rather than accept them.

Look how most people spend their hard earned dollars! They slave and slave only to get drunk and watch movies? What type of life is that? Nothing wrong with getting drunk or movies, but they are relaxation. If you put them as the focus of your life, it would be a pathetic life.

This thread is titled, "What I've learned." This is something I believe is true. Whether you believe it or not is up to you. We all must find our own way.

There is nothing wrong with focusing in your life more than woman, the problem is when a INDIVIDUAL try to influence others to make they live by HIS dreams and ideals, his TASTES and his passions, that's where the problem lies, it can lead to the many people develop intern self-conflicts.

Yes, it is my TASTE not to be desperate. It is my TASTE to not act like a peon. It is my TASTE to be heroic when situations dictate it. It is my TASTE to build my life. It is my TASTE to attempt to figure out the riddles of Nature. It is my TASTE to live.

Don't take my words as laws. Much of what has been learned from this site has PREVENTED many disasters. I ultimately think you'll be happier striving than placing your talent to service your lust.

Live, laugh, love! Notice the order?

------------------
POOK
------------------------
"As you think, you shall become."

posted 10-03-2002 09:22 AM            

Sorry to get off the topic guys but just a quick note,

posted 10-03-2002 03:17 PM            

Otto Weiniger, of the early 1900's, committed suicide at tender age of 23, after failed publication of his masterpiece Sex and Character (which was, in time, wildly published after his death). One source of his death wish was what he had found in Woman: that they are soulless creatures. Otto found what Pook is finding.

(A full and free version of the book can be found here)

posted 10-04-2002 12:20 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Donjuanpablo:

Is Anti-Dump Doc Love?- I remember a lot of speculation a while ago and this post has lead me to speculate further.

---

I have always been convinced of it personally, but I could be wrong. I look at it this way: even if they are not the same person, they may as well be.

posted 10-18-2002 05:24 PM            

though i got some points here for u pook to clarify

First of All I can read ppl minds easily and get to know how they think thru their eyes as i also am interested in social psychology . as it just flew from 2 years or somethin mainly cz of my skill in psychology and osbervation as well as readin that elicitin values article or shall i say when i re-read alot of da lay-guide articles that i founded out later that it isn't that useful for gals , for life Towards Happiness .

So what im sayin is that i absoutley agree with ur point regardin speed seduction and operatin on ur gut only , but what about elicitin values ?? only elictin not echoin??
meanin that u ask subtly or directly deep questions about her desires , feelings , past memories etc.....

I've Found out these days that alot of time the conversation can't get in the natural progression even with guys i sometimes find out that i try to force it or think of what questions to ask u know maybe cz i haven't been that outgoin these days or donno so what would be done to let the conversation flow lightley and when u think that ur bored talkin about her or not knowin exactley what to ask about her u know

posted 10-19-2002 04:24 AM            

Mr. Mystery

------------------
"Every passing minute is a chance to turn it all around" Vanilla Sky

"The little things...theres nothing bigger is there?" Vanilla Sky

"Whats your favorite position? That's cool with me, it's not my favorite but I'll do it for you" Tenacious D-Fvck her gentley

I know this sorta contridicts some of my other quotes but fvck it...

posted 10-19-2002 09:35 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Donjuanpablo:

Is Anti-Dump Doc Love?- I remember a lot of speculation a while ago and this post has lead me to speculate further.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by SexPDX:
I have always been convinced of it personally, but I could be wrong. I look at it this way: even if they are not the same person, they may as well be.

---

Anti-Dump quit posting on this board after almost a year the day someone directly asked him if he was Doc Love.

posted 10-19-2002 05:41 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by JustDoItAlways:
Anti-Dump quit posting on this board after almost a year the day someone directly asked him if he was Doc Love.

---

Wow, imagine THAT!

BTW, justdoit, check your e-mail.

posted 10-21-2002 02:06 AM            

Think of it as good communication skills. Women obviously talk differently then men. If you have common values, might as well strike on it (because she will. She wants you to be like her, she wants you to be perfect because she's hoping you are).

Anti-Dump and Doc Love

Sorry guys, Anti-Dump was not Doc Love. Even with the pimpologist1 on the askmen.com forums, the writing styles don't match.

John (anti-dump) typed on a keyboard in front of a TV (web-tv) I believe. He wasn't a computer type person like most of us seem to be.

Why'd he leave? A better question is why would he stay? When he was here, newbies and others would flood the guy with questions. "ANTI-DUMP! I NEED HELP! I CAN'T DO THIS! WAAAHH!" What was he getting from any of that? Nothing. Anyone would leave after all that.

Anti-Dump never did the politically incorrect wit that Doc Love always does and wouldn't have the patience to do whirly winded pimpologist1 style writing on the askmen forum.

What's next? That Anti-Dump is still around but using a different name?

Well, that can't be because that is supposed to be me (apparently) as seen here: http://www.sosuave.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/003551.html

If you are worrying about posters here, you need to get away from the computer.

------------------
POOK
------------------------
"As you think, you shall become."

posted 10-21-2002 04:50 AM            

i'd like to talk with u online one day

if u have any contact messenger...

Send me at evergloreix@hotmail with the info that's if u don't mind of course