posted 06-17-2001 04:31 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Scarface:
I know this is a really old post, and my question might get ignored... but do you guys really think you have to wait 3 months before you tell her anything about yourself...

I know 3 months goes by quick, buts it seems a little long...

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If, by chance, you have come in to the presence of a real intelligent girl (it happens), she will eject you before that 3 months is up...more like 3 days if you give her the vibe that you live a double life.

Basically, don't pour your soul out to her so soon. You do that, then she feels compelled to do the same, which inevitably brings up her past and how she got done wrong by guys X, Y, and Z....then you're in the "Zone" because she's using your shoulder to cry on.

posted 09-22-2001 06:10 AM            

I may try that out myslef and see If I can get it to work. Like he said its all in the attitude. If I tried this s few months back before I started talking to girls and getting my confidence level high it wouldn't have worked. now that I really don't give a fuk about any particular chick and have that true confidence I bet it works just like he says.

You set yourself apart from the rest by

1) expecting her to call you
2) coming on like you get chicks calling you all the time instead of havig to chase them like most guys.

posted 09-22-2001 01:55 PM            

Here are a couple of things to keep in mind:

1) Most of the guys on here are recovering AFCs. That means they need HARD AND FAST RULES. No bending, no breaking, no thinking. Otherwise they will lapse back into their AFC ways. (I speak from personal experience)

2) After the recovering AFC has ingrained the DJ ways, made them part of who he is, AND they have become a habit; only THEN is he free to start bending and breaking them. He will now have the skills and habits necessary to not go back to being an AFC. Even then, sometimes he will slip up. (Again, speaking from personal experience)

3) Each person has their own personality and style. Each person's approach and attitude will be different. Once the basics are ingrained, a true DJ will use the DJ principles to his advantage, or discard them when necessary, also to his advantage.

Each DJ on this site will instinctively know if a particular method will work for them. I am very good with neg-hits, because I can have a very nasty sarcastic side when I want to. So, I tame that and bend it to neg-hits. See what I mean?

If a particular approach, tip, or idea doesn't work for you, then treat that idea the same as you would a girl you don't like. NEXT! However, this presupposses that you have at least TRIED the idea, and not rejected it because it sounds like it won't work. Neg-hits are another PERFECT example. They sound like they would p*ss off a hot chick, but they won't if used correctly.

I am glad to see that everyone is keeping this on a "professional" level, if you will, and not getting personal.

posted 09-22-2001 01:58 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Low Self Esteem:

11. TOTALLY DISAGREE!! Don't just shack up wit any ol broad but if it is marrying the best that you are tryna do, than you better live with her ass before you even think about marriage. i have lived with broads before and i swear to you it is a totally different ballgame once you live with them, than it is when you don't. you better test them waters before you decide to be thinkin bout marriage. human nature makes you always want to do something and then once you do it or get what you want then you see it aint what you thought, and in this case if you are talkin bout a girl you better be sure.

[This message has been edited by Low Self Esteem (edited 06-11-2000).]

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Umm well I Totally disagree on this one, I read this book that if you live with someone before you marry them you have less chance of staying with them or her . This because you get a lil bored with her if you live with her, you know what shes like. On the other hand if you don't live with her b4 you marry her then things get interesting.

------------------
Don't over-shower her with compliments that will make her BIG and you little.

[This message has been edited by Mastermind (edited 09-22-2001).]

posted 05-21-2002 02:10 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Anti-Dump:
THE PERFECT DON JUAN
He asks for a girl's phone number when he FIRST meets or sees her. Not one month later.

He always asks for the HOME phone number. He walks away if he doesn't get it.
AD

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I have seen a lot of debate over "give your phone number" vs. "demand hers" and I want to put in my two cents:

I have had far more initial success giving my number out than getting others. Usually, it's on the back of a business card that only has my work numbers, like I'm saying "I'm just doing this for you." You would be surprised how often I get phone calls the next morning saying "I just wanted to make sure you got home okay."

posted 05-23-2002 07:39 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Low Self Esteem:

and to Penzilla- you have me wrong i DO get it that is why i got strong opinions

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Ditto.

I "get" what I need for me.

Be open to all.

Observe and learn.

Keep what is usefull to you.

Discard the rest ONLY AFTER much thought and deliberation.

Know yourself.

Know what you want.

Then go get it.

Maximus

------------------
The Way of The
Simpleton - A
simpleton: lays down
no first law, takes
everything that
happens as it comes.
The simplicity of the
truly sophisticated.

---- Bruce Lee

posted 05-23-2002 08:10 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ralph Bellamy:because *I* wasn't in control.

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This has always puzzled me.

Why do people think in terms of power and control?

No. I am not naive. Power and control are a reality in this world. I would simply ask those here to start looking at all relationships (personal and professional) that rely on tactics of giving and taking power; methods of gaining or releasing control.

ARE THOSE PEOPLE HAPPY?

It has been my observation in life that those who constantly think in terms of power and control will have great difficulty achieving true happiness.

The only control you need is control over:
- yourself
- your choices
- your reactions to things beyond your control.

Once you let go, things just start to work out for themselves. This may sound like new age nonsense to a lot of people here - and I would have agreed with you to some degree two years ago. Many things in my life have changed but I have ALWAYS remained true to my core values.

Trust

Honesty

Help others

Help yoursef

Be happy

I still have my down times. I simply trust that there is A GOOD REASON I was put on this planet.

I hope when I draw my final breath, I will be able to look back and know what it was. I think my answer will be...

Just be

Maximus

posted 10-11-2002 06:42 PM            

I think what he means by this is don't hesitate and I agree with that, however I wouldn't say this is an unbreakable rule.

He always asks for the HOME phone number. He walks away if he doesn't get it.

I understand the argument for this but it's really inconsequential if you create sufficient attraction which phone number you actually get. If she gives you her cell and not her home number it's not necessarily to be taken as a sign of insufficient attraction necessarily. She may in fact be doing it to make it easier for you to get in touch with her.

There is no need to make a big deal out of which number you get. The exceptions I can think of are..

1) NEXT her if you get a beeper number.

2) If the girl is a stripper be sure you get her HOME phone number. That separates you from the guys she considers only customers who she strings along.

A Don Juan always waits four or more days before calling a girl. She must wait.

Disagree, if you created a sufficient level of attraction you are just wasting time and putting yourself in a position to have to rebuild the excitement that you created for her initially. However, if you did NOTHING to create an attraction then calling quickly would be lame so wait (but don't expect much to come from calling an unattracted girl).

A Don Juan never arranges a date face-to-face with a girl. He always calls first. She must wait and wonder about him.

Disagree. There is no guarantee she will wonder about you at all. If AD were still around I would very much like to hear from him what her wondering about you would be inspired by if you have done nothing to facilitate the development of feelings of attraction other than asking for her phone number. He says asking for her phone number is how guys express their interest but the truth is that most girls will not be "wondering" about a guy simply because he asked for her phone number or expressed interest in some other way. It's the guys who ATTRACT them that they wonder about and if you attract them STRONGLY, they will want to see you again soon. So what would be the problem with saying face to face, "I was going to do X at Y time, you should come with me"? Then instead of wondering she gets to anticipate.

He sees a girl ONLY once a week for the first three weeks. He has to 'clear' his dates with other women. Or pretend he is busy with other women. He says he is busy if she wants more.

A matter of personal preference for the most part. Not a bad policy to have I suppose.

A Don Juan never gives flowers, cards, or gifts for the first two months. Her birthday is the only exception .

No serious argument from me on this rule. Definitely give her nothing big which would be supplication but maybe something small that you think she would like wouldn't be so bad. And back when I was following the DJ rules to the letter I did give a chick flowers for her birthday who I first started seeing, so I think the exception AD mentions is good.

He never talks over an hour with a women on the phone. EVER. Twenty minutes is tops. He avoids contact with her. With e-mails and messages, etc. between dates. He calls once to arrange the next date.

For most guys this is probably smart but I know some guys who are really good on the phone and I see no problem with them being on the phone for as long as they want.

During the first three months he tells her NOTHING about himself. She has to ask. When asked, he gives only tiny itty bitty pieces.

This was probably said to keep guys from going on and on about themselves to the point where it bores the chicks to death, so it was probably well-intentioned when taken in that context but I believe that you do need to reveal some things about yourself to create rapport with anybody. Of course you do need to be tactfull about your self-disclosure in terms of exactly what information and you don't want to constantly be putting yourself at the center of attention but hoarding as much info as you can for three months is a little too much.

Maybe he figured guys would slip up enough of on that one on their own so if he got them to restrain it just a little, they would strike an appropriate balance.

He waits for her to say 'I love you' first. Then he knows she really means it.

Agreed.

A Don Juan never says 'I love you' before two months. Ever.

I see no need for such a hard-assed rule on this one. I know when I am in love (which has only been once) and I will have no problem owning up to it if I KNOW it's there. I guess he's talking to guys who don't know the difference between infatuation and love.

A Don Juan NEVER proposes before six months. He prefers to wait one year. All minor flaws must be seen.

I am not qualified to comment on this one.

A Don Juan never lives with a women. He is a free man. He will marry the BEST when he meets her.

Agreed.

A Don Juan only FOCUSES on the romantic side of a women. He knows long talks lead to friendship not LOVE. He knows being a mystery fascinates her and makes her WONDER and WANT him.

He talks about mystery like it is all there is to attraction, too much emphasis on it IMO. Also, I disagree that long talks necessarily "lead to friendship and not love." He is attempting to judge the outcome of an interaction by only evaluating the duration and not the content, which is not logical.

And lastly, a true Don Juan
makes sure the relationship is 50-50. HALF of the time she is doing what HE wants to do. He feels this in his stomach. Not head.

Don't really understand this one completely so I will leave it alone.

I think AD was well-intentioned but I don't like the approach of a focus on rules. The more a guy focuses on rules (even if he is an AFC) the more he is hindering the development of his ability to form opinions about women on his own. These rules may help guys who have no game only because AD's game will be better than theirs (which obviously will not be saying much) but I guy is not going to get to be great with chicks by simply following these rules.

posted 10-12-2002 01:32 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by SexPDX:
He always asks for the HOME phone number. He walks away if he doesn't get it.

I understand the argument for this but it's really inconsequential if you create sufficient attraction which phone number you actually get. If she gives you her cell and not her home number it's not necessarily to be taken as a sign of insufficient attraction necessarily. She may in fact be doing it to make it easier for you to get in touch with her.

---

Nah, I agree with AD on this one. I want to talk to a lady on her home phone, not when she's God-knows-where on her cell or at work where she can use the workload as an excuse to dodge me and co-workers to front for her. Not even going there on the beeper number. Dealing with all of this is not even an option for me anymore. Life is too short.

quote:

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A Don Juan always waits four or more days before calling a girl. She must wait.

Disagree, if you created a sufficient level of attraction you are just wasting time and putting yourself in a position to have to rebuild the excitement that you created for her initially.

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Two or three days is my general rule, if things went well. I want to still be fresh on her mind but not appear like I have no life. Wait too long and you lose everything, you're just a distant memory.

quote:

---

A Don Juan never arranges a date face-to-face with a girl. He always calls first. She must wait and wonder about him.

Disagree. There is no guarantee she will wonder about you at all. If AD were still around I would very much like to hear from him what her wondering about you would be inspired by if you have done nothing to facilitate the development of feelings of attraction other than asking for her phone number.

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I do agree here. Assuming she'll wonder about you is a recipe for failure. It's overconfidence.

quote:

---

He sees a girl ONLY once a week for the first three weeks. He has to 'clear' his dates with other women. Or pretend he is busy with other women. He says he is busy if she wants more.

A matter of personal preference for the most part. Not a bad policy to have I suppose.

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Three weeks sounds arbitrary but I agree with the general idea.

quote:

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A Don Juan never gives flowers, cards, or gifts for the first two months. Her birthday is the only exception.

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Not sure I would give them after that LOL. Seriously, I would consider a holiday to be an exception too, and what gift I get her for say, Christmas, will be proportionate to the amount of time I've invested in the relationship.

quote:

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He never talks over an hour with a women on the phone. EVER. Twenty minutes is tops. He avoids contact with her. With e-mails and messages, etc. between dates. He calls once to arrange the next date.

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I don't agree, this sounds too arbitrary. I would prefer to let the flow of the relationship decide this. No, I don't want to outstay my welcome on her phone and I want to end on a high note, but I won't cut off a nice, engaging conversation right after 19:59 on the stopwatch. Maybe keep them short early but EVER is too severe.

quote:

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During the first three months he tells her NOTHING about himself. She has to ask. When asked, he gives only tiny itty bitty pieces.

...Of course you do need to be tactful about your self-disclosure in terms of exactly what information and you don't want to constantly be putting yourself at the center of attention but hoarding as much info as you can for three months is a little too much.

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Agreed. It is not my style to always look like I'm Richard Nixon, always trying to hide something. Mystery is good for initial attraction but I have no use for it in a LTR. On the other hand, I do agree with making her work for it a bit, and waiting until she asks, and not being overly detailed and blabby, but not the other extreme of acting like I'm a closed book with no life and nothing to say.

quote:

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He waits for her to say 'I love you' first. Then he knows she really means it.

Agreed.

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Same here.

quote:

---

A Don Juan never says 'I love you' before two months. Ever.

I see no need for such a hard-assed rule on this one. I know when I am in love (which has only been once) and I will have no problem owning up to it if I KNOW it's there.

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I do agree with the amount of time, generally, but again I consider nothing in this post or on this site to be iron-clad, especially not a time unit.

quote:

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A Don Juan NEVER proposes before six months. He prefers to wait one year. All minor flaws must be seen.

I am not qualified to comment on this one.

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I am. I deliberately waited about proposing to my ex-fiance and lived to regret it. (It was right around the year mark; she was expecting to see it around six months, when I *really* wanted to do it.) It hurt the relationship, and gave her a false idea of my interest level that affected her trust in me. I will never again go so far against my own gut just because some game suggests it's not the best thing to do. I will propose when I am ready and not a nanosecond before...or after.

quote:

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A Don Juan only FOCUSES on the romantic side of a women. He knows long talks lead to friendship not LOVE. He knows being a mystery fascinates her and makes her WONDER and WANT him.

He talks about mystery like it is all there is to attraction, too much emphasis on it IMO. Also, I disagree that long talks necessarily "lead to friendship and not love." He is attempting to judge the outcome of an interaction by only evaluating the duration and not the content, which is not logical.

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Perfect, Sex. I think Anti-Dump seems to put way too much emphasis on Mystery. So at what point do we *not* worry about mystery anymore? Ever? Throw it out the window on the wedding night? I don't want to live the rest of my life in a masquerade dance with the woman I love, because I'll be just as lonely as if I never dated again from 35 to 95. And I want the woman I love to have a realistic idea of who I am before she marries me. I'd rather scare her off then instead of having her run off with the mailman because I suddenly started having long talks with her after the "I do's". Again, don't wear yourself thin or bore her silly, but using a stopwatch is the other extreme and that sounds like what Anti-Dump is advocating.

quote:

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And lastly, a true Don Juan
makes sure the relationship is 50-50. HALF of the time she is doing what HE wants to do. He feels this in his stomach. Not head.

Don't really understand this one completely so I will leave it alone.

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I do and I agree with this last one 100%, ironically coming after the one with which I disagree most.

posted 10-12-2002 01:37 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Maximus:
This has always puzzled me.

Why do people think in terms of power and control?

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posted 10-13-2002 06:18 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by SexPDX:
I think AD was well-intentioned but I don't like the approach of a focus on rules.

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Why not? Because his rules won't get you laid?

I agree that AD's rules for the "Perfect Don Juan" will not arouse any woman, let alone get a guy laid. But his rules are still relevant for a different reason.

How can an "AFC" demonstrate value when he typically has nothing of value to demonstrate in the first place? While AD's rules do not stress demonstrating value, they do help newcomers develop value in terms of thickening his skin, learning how to respect himself and growing a backbone.

Newcomers have to develop value (i.e. self-improvement) before they can demonstrate value. I think Anti-Dump's rules are still one way that this can be accomplished.

quote:

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Originally posted by SexPDX:
The more a guy focuses on rules (even if he is an AFC) the more he is hindering the development of his ability to form opinions about women on his own.

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Ah, but that's where experience comes into play!

I contend that rules are a vital part of developing the qualities that women desire in a man. The more a guy focuses on rules (in the intial stages of self-improvement), the more experience he gains that he can later use form his own behavioral guidelines.

Again, the rules for the "Perfect Don Juan" won't get anyone laid on its own, but the rules may help get guys laid only after they've modified it their own lifestyle and personality, like AD stated.

quote:

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Originally posted by SexPDX:
These rules may help guys who have no game only because AD's game will be better than theirs (which obviously will not be saying much) but I guy is not going to get to be great with chicks by simply following these rules.

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That depends heavily on your objective for being here in the first place.

posted 11-03-2002 11:17 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SexPDX:

[b]A Don Juan always waits four or more days before calling a girl. She must wait.

Disagree, if you created a sufficient level of attraction you are just wasting time and putting yourself in a position to have to rebuild the excitement that you created for her initially. However, if you did NOTHING to create an attraction then calling quickly would be lame so wait (but don't expect much to come from calling an unattracted girl).

[/B]

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No, AD is dead on about this. You should wait even if you've created a lot of attraction when you approached her. If you call quickly you'll be doing exactly what she wants and what she expects you to do, you're playing by her rules. However, if you wait, you're keeping her in suspense. If she's attracted to you she'll be thinking about you a lot during the span b/w when you met and when you call and wondering why you didn't call immediately. Then it'll be that much sweeter for her when you finally go out of your way and take your precious time to give her a call. Her attraction will have grown by then, you won't have had to rebuild anything

posted 11-05-2002 06:35 PM            

Here's where I agree with you. You're right in stating that it is important for "newbies" to wait a few days before calling.

However, you are wrong in thinking that waiting to call is going make a girl more interested in you. That's where I have to side with PDX.

For further clarification, go to the DJ Bible and look up a post called "The Inner Struggle of the DJ Student" by trickynick (I wonder what happened to him? ).

Pay particular attention to the response given by Rebel Leader, who was one of the more respected females to have ever posted on this forum. She explains it a little better than I could.

Hope this helps in your further understanding.