posted 09-23-2002 09:19 PM            

I didnt think it was possible to produce such a great post on this board again.

props to you pook, as well as to you nick.

posted 09-24-2002 03:00 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Pook:
My vanity lies on other things, completly deattached from this site.

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That's interesting. I didn't mention anything about vanity, not even implicitly. Why do you?

quote:

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Originally posted by Pook:

For writing I consider to be 'effort', it would have to be a type of verse, say iambic pentameter or spenser form.

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Hehehe...that's okay, Pook, you don't have to write me a sonnet.

quote:

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Originally posted by Pook:
I'm not putting much an effort. (My posts run long because I love reading my thoughts, haha)

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Ahhh, so you DO enjoy this kind of posting. An admission of that was all I was after.

quote:

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Originally posted by Pook:
But the point is not to live so you can Don Juan; it is to Don Juan so that you can live.

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What you are trying to say here sounds interesting. For further clarification can you rephrase not to include the words 'Don Juan'? Thank you.

quote:

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Originally posted by Pook:
I've always been afraid that this forum would turn into a satellite for Speed Seduction. There are plenty of SS type sites; I haven't found another site like this one. SS comes and goes her in cycles which is fine.

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Pook, I am not nearly as into SS as a method as you and others may think. One of the only reasons I talk about it so much here is because of the amount of misconception there is here about it. Now you and I disagree but that's different. Because you do have a certain amount of experience with it, I recognize you as someone with an informed opinion.

I have heard guys here talk about anyone who uses SS, MM or any other such method as being scum when they themselves know NOTHING about it.

quote:

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Originally posted by Pook:
But regardless of the cocky type SSers talk, there is more to women than anything dreamed in the PU.

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This is either a statement of the obvious or I am completely misunderstanding.

quote:

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Originally posted by Pook:
Obviously, no one who makes no effort to don juan is going to do so overnight, no matter how much is read. A big key in being successful with don juaning is HABIT.

But don't let the habit continue to swell and grow and shove off the other habits, especially the ones that aim at your own idealism and dreams. For if you lose those, you lose your life.

There is high potential in all of us, even if we don't realize it ourselves, and I'm going to do everything I can to yank it out of you.

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Consider this, Pook. It has only been ONE YEAR since I got the memo that I was an AFC, a nice guy, and that everything I had been doing with women my whole life was for the most part WRONG. Now that I have broken free of that (well maybe not by the POOK definition of AFC) isn't a very natural (and perhaps HEALTHY) phase to want to spend some time appreciating my successes?

quote:

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Originally posted by Pook:
When men talk, we usually focus on the SUBJECT of the discussion. We can talk on and on about a subject and forget that the other person is there. It is like we are talking of the mental idea, THAT is the focus.

When women talk, they usually talk to each other. They can never talk like men, in forgetting the present surroundings and talking and thinking of the transcendent thought at hand. No, there is no 'subject' but only to the other person. Thus, anything you talk about is going to be seen as how it is seen or thought in relation to her or something else.

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Very well put. This here is the reason it's not what you SAY to a woman but how you DELIVER it.

quote:

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Originally posted by Pook:
Although the feminine does not like intellectualism, she DOES like a guy who is smart (not because she can hear you blabber intellectualism, but because your added value means her added value).

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Yes, she is anticipating the social proof she is going to get by showing me off to everyone.

quote:

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Originally posted by Pook:
It's often good to try to get something like you were doing with the chick. She, herself, might discover a 'mental connection' and fall in love with you with her mind (which the body follows). (And this is all without the incredible connection pattern.)

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The incredible connection pattern usually revolves around bringing her back to a time when she felt such a connection. IMO, an overemphasis on that reflects a lack of confidence in one's ability to be the TRUE source of those feelings (though it MAY work). See, Pook, I am not a die hard SSer.

As for what I did with that girl I mentioned, I use a wide variety of things such as that in my routines. And yes they are routines and yes I am 'demonstrating' personality. I do it consciously, I have not claim to have reached some kind of grandiose Don Juan nirvana as you have.

The thing is I don't do this only with women but with the whole world. I am unlike anybody I have ever known. I am a performer and the world is my stage. I have to decide ahead of time how I want to come across to who and I am getting pretty good at it at this point. To tell you the truth I pretty much have to conciously decide this or else just random bits of whatever process my mind is entertaining at the moment comes out and quite frankly most people will think I am nuts if that happens. I take responsability for my communication and I believe I've made it a long way already.

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- The performer known as Nick

posted 09-24-2002 10:15 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Foxhunter:
I fail to see why I cannot foster an attitude of self-development and self-fulfilment, but still not strive to master the concepts of SS.

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Yes, the two things are not in conflict with each other. In addition to that, there are PLENTY of guys focusing on themselves, moving mountains, building towers and in general doing great things who couldn't get laid in a wh0rehouse with a fist full of money. Or if they DO get laid it's because the chick is either a gold digger or want to nail him down as an LTR/husband but NOT because he makes her horny. I rather get laid because I make women horny personally.

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- The performer known as Nick

posted 09-24-2002 07:04 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Pook:

Anti-Dump is right all the way. Speed seduction, for the case of long term relationships, is worthless.

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To avoid giving the impression that I am pushing SS again, let's just talk about seduction methods in general.

How can you assert that ANY method is "useless for long term relationships"? The INITIAL attraction is ALWAYS about SOMETHING. What goes on in a relationship where the initial attraction eventually becomes challenged by the reality of what it is like to be with that person from one day to the next is a totally different topic than for what reasons two people get together in the beginning.

quote:

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Originally posted by Pook:

Anti-Dump was a Nice Guy that got into a bad marriage until he changed his ways (and came here to tell us so WE don't have to go through that same 'experience').

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Yes. Then he gave us such GREAT advice as "treat all women the same".

posted 09-24-2002 07:06 PM            

use the capitals in proper nouns and at the beginning of sentences please.

posted 09-24-2002 08:16 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jester:
is anyone else getting REALLY annoyed by these EGOMANIACS who try to EMPHASIZE every other friggin word?

use the capitals in proper nouns and at the beginning of sentences please.

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WELL, JESTER, MY particular STYLE of communication happen to be VERY emphatic and I have gotten USED TO posting in NEWSGROUPS where the ONLY way I am ABLE to EMPHASIZE a word is to TYPE it in ALL CAPS. Does that EXPLAIN it SUFFICIENTLY?

Since YOU are so EAGAR to make YOUR pet peeves KNOWN, I will tell YOU about one of MINE: people who BELIEVE that INSULTING me is SOMEHOW going to make me feel INCLINED to ACCOMODATE something as FRIVOLOUS as what YOU are asking me to do.

Jester, in the future when a thread has this much content and you have nothing to add but a flippant quip of a comment, please stay out of it. Otherwise your lame wisecracks are just going to sit in an otherwise great thread like spattering of bird sh!t.

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- The performer known as Nick

posted 09-24-2002 10:15 PM            

or post ur AIM name here and ill IM you.

posted 09-24-2002 10:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jester:
i wasnt even talking about you,

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That doesn't make a difference, please read my last reply again with an EMPHASIS on the final paragraph.

It would be no big deal if this was a newsgroup I could read through a newsreader where I can filter out posters who make such comments but it's a web-based message board so I don't have that luxury.

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- The performer known as Nick

posted 09-25-2002 03:32 PM            

What Pooks says is that women are attracted to MEN, the Bruce Willies type. Did you see, for example, 12 monkeys? He barely talks there, doesn't make jokes and of course knows sh!t about SS, but lot of women consider his character very attractive.
I believe that gives us 2 kinds of players personalities.
The cool, relaxed, "I'm the best sh!t around & don't need to prove it" type.
And the funny, who knows he is funny & makes other ppl laugh because both enjoy it.

Actually, I don't think they are that different. A person can make jokes because he WANTS TO or because he wants to be seen as cool & therefore accepted.
That's the whole "be yourself" idea, not about just act naturally as you would now, but change yourself to a person who doesn't need aproval from others.

I think that to become the best MAN or DJ one has to go through a phase when he starts getting lots of success so he can realize that he can get women. So in the begginings I believe SS, techniques, canned lines, etc are a necessary evil.
Then, as the person improves, his personality addapts to provide the qualities of a MAN (alphaness), the thing that all women are inherently after.

posted 09-26-2002 06:34 PM            

I will explain it thus like this and no more will I do so:

A child in the womb! How incredible! Could the child be a football player, a president, or what? This is what every parent wonders.

But let us say the child, upon delivery, said, "Hold! Do not deliver me from this fleshy envelope. I am content and satisfied. I have my rest, my relaxation, my restoration. Away from me, you doctor! For I will stay in the womb."

And what can the doctor say to that!

But, with all of us, we know that such an attitude is gross and wrong to the will of life. The infant has organs of its own, a mind of its own, even its own distinct DNA. It's purpose is to transcend the womb.

And so is the same with Man! With god-like reasoning, of infinite faculties, of action that mocks that of angels, are we to sleep and feed and merely go to our graves like beds?

Just as the child in the womb has arms, legs, lungs, a mind, etc. to transcend the womb so does Man contain the awesome power of Reason, of faculties limited only by imagination, and the means to live outside his time and transmit his thoughts into time (of books, of legends, of history, of wisdom itself).

You must eat to live but you do not live to eat. Food is a source of fuel, of pleasure, even of social contact, but imagine if it is the focus. There are people who go about their entire day debating on what they will eat, when they will eat it, and how they will eat it when they eat it where they are eating it with whom they are eating it with! These people are obviously missing the point. (And they are fat.)

You will not find any of the above concepts in the whole of literature of Speed Seduction. But yes, it does create results.

"But Pook! But Pook! Is not Speed Seduction another quiver to put in our Cupid bow? Is not its long shaft able to penetrate the hot woman in every thrusting thought to spill the poison into her veins to make her blood HOT FOR LUST?"

Speed Seduction is more of an attitude than anything else. If you do not have the attitude, then it will not work. What is the attitude? It is the boy-toy. REACT to whatever makes her horny. The Speed Seducer becomes nothing more than a social dildo. Is he really making love to her or has he merely become a physical manifestation of her masturbation? If you reflect her attitudes, pattern her and all, then what becomes of you? She makes love to herself; that is all.

When I was an AFC, I would do anything to get a girl to like me (flowers, sonnets, chocolate, you know the drill). There are also girls that are AFCish. I say, "I love the color blue!" and she goes, "I love the color blue too!" I say, "I came from the country" and she goes, "Oh, I LOVE the country." "I listen to rock," and she says, "Oh, how I love rock!" It becomes so ridiculous that I can't contain my laughter. I don't want to make love to myself. That is why such behavior instinctively repels us.

What is the Average Frustrated Chump? He is frustrated; he can't get any. He is a chump; he has no sense of self or purpose. Therefore, he is average; there are millions like him.

Speed Seduction merely eliminates the frustrated part. OK, now he can get some. But at what cost? He is still a chump. What self or purpose does he have? Thus, he is still average; there are millions like him.

You are content only at merely eliminating the frustration; I want to blast the AFC entirely away.

Yes, yes, you are not as frustrated. But what purpose does it serve to continually feed on it? What is the fruit when one makes his life a Tabernacle of Flesh?

No! There is more work to do!

Think back to your early AFC days. One chilling question: what if you were successful as a AFC? Countless guys are. They marry the fat chick and have lives ensnared entirely by their new family.

You certainly would not have gone to this website. You certainly would not learn the the things you know, or to be able to do the things you can now do. Your loss catapulted you ahead of the flocks of guys.

You could have gotten the woman in AFC-day and be doomed. But that failure let you into a land of endless possibilities. The point is that satisfaction can numb us to particular possibilities.

Is the point never to be satisfied? NO! The point is to keep marching onward. The women's rejections early on popped you out of your routine drudgery of a life. For a moment, you could see everything clearly. You saw how much of a loser you were. And, therefore, you could change. The key to every great man in history has been the woman. It always has been the woman they COULD NOT HAVE. You would not be at this website if you did have the woman (women) you wanted. This 'knocking you out' of the usual sleepful pattern we live our lives can be used for great opportunity.

Who says the Don Juan style only pertains to women and ends there? The Don Juan knowledge can and should be used and applied throughout all the intricacies of your life. After all, your romantic life is an echo of your regular life.

ESPN says that this type of style is only something I enjoy. That this 'monastery' lifestyle is only because it makes me happy.

First, I don't have a monastery lifestyle. Just because I say 'keep the focus on your life and future and away from women and their endless pleasures' does not mean advocating Monkhood. I am saying this not in a vain spirit, not in a philosophical sense, but from the experience of seeing so many 'super-dudes' who, thinking that since they could get women and sex that they were on the threshold of the world, have their lives swallowed up by the women. One friend has spent the past five years of his life with this 'style' and he has no job, no future, NOTHING. "I want to change" he sobs sadly. And what does he have to show? That he has had sex?

Sex is NOT an achievement. Think about it. Everyone of your descendants had sex. Your Dad had sex. Even your grandmother had sex. EVERYONE can get sex. IT IS NOT NEW.

I am so sick and tired of young men, or should I say boys, who are so overcome with the pleasures of sex that they devote all free-time and life for here-on to it. Eventually you're going to wake up and realize that all that time became a waste. You thought sex was an achievement, something that warrants a trophy. Yet, everyone and practically anyone can get it.

I am tired of Speed Seducers, in their higher-than-all arrogance, declare how they are CHAMPIONS because they can have sex while pointing to some AFCs. Yet, they do not point to the millions of dorks who are getting laid more than they, who (never hearing a word of speed seduction or reading anything on seduction) are STUPID and DUMB. THAT is the real reason why we, in our nice guy days, were so fired up about the jerks getting the girls. It was that we were SMARTER and they were STUPID. It was that we TRIED and they DIDN'T. It never occurred to us that WE were the ones that had the problems. No, it took that one angel rejecting us to get us to honestly look at ourselves and to come to this website.

I am tired of this stupid vanity. So you're getting sex. So what? BIG DEAL. You still have to go to work the next morning. You still have to pay your bills. You are still a nothing.

I am tired of this eternal childhood. I am tired of walking through dormroom halls to see posted on the door, "Gone! Booty call!" Using the university as a brothel is much more expensive than a brothel and removes the focus of what is truly important.

I am tired of ego-maniacs, those who aspire to politics in Washington or to class president. I am tired of their 'look at me, look at me' attitude that they think they are literally accomplishing something, that their position elevates their substance. It is more important to be a Man than President. I am tired of these hollow people, who the words, 'self-education' means nothing since they imagine themselves brilliant merely because of a diploma that people get all the time. I am tired of the herd mentality, how people will take other's opinions and pass it on their own to have no courage to voice a new sliver of a thought that might actually advance the quest of knowledge rather than regurgitating the same cr@p over and over again.

I am tired of this focus on sex. The ancient Greeks were like rabbits. The Native Americans had lots of sex. Even in the socially crystalline ages of the Victorian or Middle Ages, they were getting laid probably more so than our current age.

And I'm tired of all focus of entertainment, psychological theories, and scientific assessments running to the alter of satisfaction to sacrifice our potential. For ANYONE can satisfy their impulses, their temptations, their desires. But at the end of such a life, a very very huge regret will hit you. You will not regret your episodes of pleasure or such. You will, however, say, "I regret that I never fulfilled my potential." But most people don't even say THAT. What they do instead is to make up terms that mask their own misuse of Time and Life. They come up with terms like TALENT or GENIUS to those that do fulfill their potential to hide the fact that they could have been just like them.

If any of you think I'm exaggerating, take any name from the history books. Every single one of them, EVERY SINGLE ONE, had to INVEST his time into his potential. Even Mozart, that 'genius' who wrote symphonies at the age of seven. Yet, even he worked like a dog throughout his life. Nothing worthwile ever comes easily.

Am I against seduction? No! No more am I against life. What I am against is when seduction begins to take AWAY from life. This is when your habits completely eliminate self-improvement and fulfilling one's potential.

Most of the guys here on this forum are YOUNG MALES. What you do today shall echo a lifetime.

If you do place the focus on the women, do not protest or make excuses later in your life when these certain people soar to the stars. You had your chance. You took your choice. They are getting laid just about as much as you but they never obsessed about it.

Keep the focus on you. Seduce to live, do not live to seduce.

Trickynick says,

Yes. Then he [Anti-Dump] gave us such GREAT advice as "treat all women the same".

You did not see this board years ago when I came or many of the others. The average level of Don Juaness has been raised considerably.

Posts revolved around what chicks think of this or that, what type of hair-style to get, and even some Speed Seduction posts here and there. On the OLD FORUM there were great guys like Big Don along with others.

Then came a guy named Anti-Dump who everyone, it seemed, thought he was TOO harsh. Tons of guys (myself included) went to him for advice. You don't find much from Anti-Dump NOW because he did not post often in the TIPS section. His posts were all answering Nice Guys. Eventually, John got tired of the Nice Guys and left.

Anti-Dump changed things around here was because of his iron-rod rule of the focus being on YOU. Who CARES what SHE wants to go on a date (at first). You pick where YOU want to go. As he said, it is a machine. You go through women after women until you find the one that matches you.

The 'treating all women the same' was his getting fed up with guys who would Don Juan a regular girl fine. When it came to a hot girl, they CHANGED and acted differently. All women go through the same process at the beginning. Depending on how they act, you can be more or less harsh.

If Anti-Dump was here now, he would say: "You guys are never going to get into a woman's head. Stop all this philosophy and psychology nonsense. Do not flirt with her or try to read her. Just go for the number and the date. THAT is how men show their interest. Women show theirs by flirting because they DON'T have the ease of asking guys out." His clear cut style cleared up things for many of us. For me, most especially.

ESPN says,

Isn't this whole Self-Discipline, Self-Control, Monk Mindset for ultimate Man Mythological achievement YOUR way to ENJOY and FEEL GOOD?
Isn't YOU feeding nature's appetite by constantly wanting to increase your self-esteem by doing great things, having a big ambition in your life and not wasting your time with unproductive activities?
I am pretty sure you ENJOY to put your ambitions in the FOCUS of your life, to read a philosophy book instead of calling the chick you met the other day.
I think this whole Apollo and Dionisius is just an INTERPRETATION of the activities people do and one is not too different from another, we are still following the basic nature of ourselves(create good feelings in our body), but just with different mindsets and TASTES.

Many people have been on this site for years (myself included). Women are as enigmatical as nature.

But eventually one reaches a point.

You will find yourself winning the duel with Nature in a Laetes form (the secrets of Nature now revealed). But what of it!? For Nature, in her dying breaths, says, "You are poisoned with Time, no philosophy in the world can do you any good."

So let us use the poison to its work. Rather than screaming at the flow of time and how its effects will make your vision less, your hair gray, your body ache, etc. utilize it now to so overcome it.

Take a guy in the hammock versus a guy laboring under the sun. Which is happier?

"The guy in the hammock."

Are you so sure? Actually it is the guy in the sun that is going to be happier and more satisfied. If you could just watch football games and watch movies, you would be miserable as hell. Your life ceases to have a purpose.

Remember when you were a kid and despised the idea of getting a summer job (since you want to enjoy the summer). Yet, once working you realize the joy in the dignity of work and the fruits of your labor.

So is the same with life! Merely running after women will choke your life with a suffocating type of miserableness. Follow your passion throughout your life and you'll be infinitely happier than any other course.

Who is playing WHO? Byron again comes to make the closing comment:

"I should like to know WHO has been carried off, except poor dear me-I have been more ravished myself than anybody since the Trojan war."

Byron recognizes who is being played, much to his (and our) astonishment.

------------------
POOK
------------------------
"As you think, you shall become."

posted 09-27-2002 03:45 PM            

Mozart probably had FEELINGS for music, he enjoyed the process of thinking about symphonies,
learning about other musicians, improving, using all his self-efficacy to achieve his full POTENTIAL in the music area.

He had the PASSION for music and the EXCELLENCE in that AREA became his HIGHEST AMBITION.

Why a INDIVIDUAL cannot have the same PASSION for seduction?Why he cannot use his effort, energy and time to study, learn with other successful people in that area, make this one of his highest ambitions?
Why he can't learn whatever he needs to achieve the EXCELLENCE in that area?
What makes one activity a "good area for a real man to join" or "waste of time!, such area does not deserve the efforts of a man!" ?
The TASTES of the individual, for YOU the idea of using all your time and living existence to seduce woman and do whatever it takes to sleep with them is waste of time, and the seduction techniques used by Speed Seducers seems to offend you, it does not fit with your tastes and probably the idea of spending time with seductions and clubs isn't one of your AMBITIONS.
Each individual have DESIRES and GOALS to be achieved, you are right by replying to this topic and keep saying the importance of focusing on a productive life instead of wasting the existence with the pursue of the constant pleasure, there are MANY guys here that need this advice, they focus in only on the pleasure itself they do not have ambitions, they live just for today and will live the same today forever.(And you will agree with me that this is sad)

In the other hand, l can't see what's wrong on focusing on the improvement of your seduction technique, on creating a hobby of seduction and learning new ways to create the results you want, l can't see what's wrong with pursuing EXCELLENCE in seduction, the same way l can't see what's wrong with Mozart, he pursed excellence in his area and should be respected.
A international rock star may say he is a loser, he may say he wasted his existence with a type of music that was terrible.
"I don't care how young he started to make songs, his music is terrible"

If we analyze this more deeply we will see that it is just a battle of values, of tastes, that this is a INTERPRETATION of each other activities.

I am still can't see why you don't accept the idea of pursuing the excellence in seduction, the idea of seduction as a AMBITION, l really don't know why.
Maybe SS conflicts with your values(and make you see that as boy-toy), maybe you haven't thought about it more deeply, anyway my point is, if someone enjoys seduction, he should pursue the excellence in this area, pursue new methods and techniques and make it a hobby, passion or whatever, you may say that a life without great achievements is a waste, that the pursue of sex and seduction as a passion is decadence of man, that this is the man as a slave of himself, but if we analyses this situation more deeply, isn't this the battle of values?the battle of tastes?
The rock star who gets mad after hearing a classical music?

The point here is, as a long you are moving forward, creating new goals, pursing the EXCELLENCE and HAPPY with your choices, nothing else matters.
Pursue what you think is important.(And it includes constantly analyzing what you think is important for the rest of your life, that's how joy and satisfaction is born)

posted 09-28-2002 01:08 AM            

what is wisdom? is it the knowledge and reasoning to do the right thing? what is right? wat is wrong? its only beleifs in your matrix.

mayb its the goal of getting hapyness, and one who acheives happyness is the wisest of all? your happy pook, or a better word is tranquil, you seem tranquil, how old are you?
your early 20s?

you want every1 to understand what you have, you must learn that they cant pook, every1 is different, people tihnk on different levels, if a person is dumb and happy, what could be the harm? you should let them stay the way they are, they might realize you opinions later on, theyll get bored of it soon enuff, and then they might seek a deeper meaning in life

it seems to me like you strive to make every1 try to understand what you know, but you have to let everyone learn on their own, your journey is what made the destinaion more rich for you pook

another thing WOMEN want MEN
GIRLS want BOYS

you must decide where you play into that picture, unfortunatly, not every1 can b a man pook, some of us will remain boys forever, but they might not realize it, so it doesnt hamr them.

i really want your opinions on a lot of tihngs pook, send me an email at I_5D_oreo_dude@hotmail.com or instans messege me on AIM at
oreo renegade

hope o hear from you.

posted 09-28-2002 10:50 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pook:
This is not a complicated subject. Nor is it difficult to understand. It seems that the nature of the subject is not bogged in its communication or understanding, but in clash to some personal views.

---

I am understanding what you are saying. You are saying that women are a part of life and should not be the focus.

However, there are ideas you have expressed that are in conflict with each other.

You condemn SS as "boy toy" or "social dildo" behavior because it responds to what makes the woman want to have sex but at the same time you say you are not against seduction. What kind of seduction doesn't respond to what makes the woman want to have sex? That's kind of the point isn't it. You want to have sex with her already, but she needs yet to be raised to buying temperature.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pook:

Then came a guy named Anti-Dump who everyone, it seemed, thought he was TOO harsh. Tons of guys (myself included) went to him for advice. You don't find much from Anti-Dump NOW because he did not post often in the TIPS section. His posts were all answering Nice Guys. Eventually, John got tired of the Nice Guys and left.

Anti-Dump changed things around here was because of his iron-rod rule of the focus being on YOU. Who CARES what SHE wants to go on a date (at first). You pick where YOU want to go. As he said, it is a machine. You go through women after women until you find the one that matches you.

The 'treating all women the same' was his getting fed up with guys who would Don Juan a regular girl fine. When it came to a hot girl, they CHANGED and acted differently. All women go through the same process at the beginning. Depending on how they act, you can be more or less harsh.

If Anti-Dump was here now, he would say: "You guys are never going to get into a woman's head. Stop all this philosophy and psychology nonsense. Do not flirt with her or try to read her. Just go for the number and the date. THAT is how men show their interest. Women show theirs by flirting because they DON'T have the ease of asking guys out." His clear cut style cleared up things for many of us. For me, most especially.

---

What you describe is the mentality of a guy who has been sh!t on so many times that he has fully collapsed into this mechanical way of thinking that enables him not to think or feel anything about the woman. He subscribed to the loserish attitude that there is NOTHING you can do to understand women better or increase the probability of her being attracted to you. Take this little nugget for example:

quote:

---

Do not flirt with her or try to read her. Just go for the number and the date. THAT is how men show their interest.

---

Now, Pook, I realize this is you speaking for Anti-Dump but I will trust your judgement that this is indeed what he would say.

There are so many wrong ideas in what he (you) said in TWO SENTENCES that with all of them combined I am having a hard time believing this guy ever got ANYWHERE with women. However, I will just point out TWO of those ideas since I am in a hurry to go make breakfast.

First, it's not about communicating your interest but INFLUENCING HERS. Your influence over a woman is the product of her attraction to you. Expressing your interest does nothing for you unless you demonstrate value to her.

Second, He acts like the number/date bit is his only option. If he is wants to communicate his interest like he (you actually) implies in that statement then why is content llet girls mop the floor with him playing phone number routlette while he neglects the much more effective path of having a tongue-down session and/or fvcking her on the spot.

He left because he got tired of the nice guys? Maybe he saw too much of himself in them. What's the difference between him and them other then he's been kicked around a little but been to dense to change his methods in any way but closing down completely into this mechanical way of thinking.

There is a name for guys like Anti-Dump, it's called AFC.

------------------
- The performer known as Nick

posted 09-29-2002 11:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by oreo_renegade:

you want every1 to understand what you have, you must learn that they cant pook, every1 is different, people tihnk on different levels, if a person is dumb and happy, what could be the harm? you should let them stay the way they are, they might realize you opinions later on, theyll get bored of it soon enuff, and then they might seek a deeper meaning in life

it seems to me like you strive to make every1 try to understand what you know, but you have to let everyone learn on their own, your journey is what made the destinaion more rich for you pook

---

oreo_renegade,
Pook has helped me in so many ways in my life. He isn't striving to for us to understand what he knows, he is sharing his ideas with us through his own lifes experiences. He wants to help share with others the life he has by teaching us how to make the most of life. And there is much to learn.

A life where you arn't ALWAYS learning and always improving is a dull life indeed.

Pook, you have helped me realize so much about life in general, not just life with and about women. I find myself constantly coming back and rereading your posts. It helps me set my mind back on the right track which seems to be so easily adverted away. I wish I could personally thank you for all you have shared, as it is invaluable to me, and I am sure many others.
Thanks

Love life, and happiness will persue.

.Drow

posted 09-30-2002 03:26 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by SexPDX:
First, it's not about communicating your interest but INFLUENCING HERS. Your influence over a woman is the product of her attraction to you. Expressing your interest does nothing for you unless you demonstrate value to her.

Second, He acts like the number/date bit is his only option. If he is wants to communicate his interest like he (you actually) implies in that statement then why is content llet girls mop the floor with him playing phone number routlette while he neglects the much more effective path of having a tongue-down session and/or fvcking her on the spot.

---

Am I hearing this correctly SexPDX? The primary goal for you in life is to be "demonstrating value to her" ? Doesn't that seem backwards? Are you a string puppet to be played by the female? What's worse, are you the string puppet that believes it is not a string puppet, falsely thinking the opposite, that you are free?

"Communicating interest" is part of the human beat--however you want to seduce, or not seduce, or just be the AFC geek who pours the interest thick like gravy. You communicate interest because you must. The existence of "communicating" was never up for debate. HOW you do it (i.e., keeping true to yourself, by the tenets of Anti-Dump) was the subject that was open, not whether you should or not.
"Communicating" is not the goal of the man that pursues a woman, but only an intermediary step in the man's qualification process.

I will not reply to the second point as that is too personally directed at Pook/AD for me to get involved in. However, I disagree with your vantage point. (I suppose if you take issue with this evasion I could get riled up enough to speak about it...hehe.)

posted 09-30-2002 02:03 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by cynetix:
Am I hearing this correctly SexPDX? The primary goal for you in life is to be "demonstrating value to her" ?

---

No, apparently you did not hear it correctly. I don't know what it is about what I said that would prompt you to make a point about demonstrating value being a goal in life.

quote:

---

Originally posted by cynetix:

"Communicating interest" is part of the human beat--however you want to seduce, or not seduce, or just be the AFC geek who pours the interest thick like gravy. You communicate interest because you must.

---

Okay, yes, you do have to communicate interest at some point but it's not at all a focal point of seduction. Seduction is about influencing HER interest in you in a positive way and there is example after example of how communicating interest can influence her interest poorly. There are some cases where it's even not appropriate at all. For many women, untill she is at buying temperature (wanting to fvck you) you can't let her know she can have you. Now, Anti-Dump, Doc Love and people with similar views assume that if she isn't at buying temperature WITHOUT your having influenced it, there is NOTHING you can do and THAT is the attitude that I think is AFC and I will stick to that opinion regardless of how unpopular it may be among people who are in agreement with certain very dominant influences on this website.

Garp is right, with this attitude you are playing into all the societal thoughts and expectations about dating. This idea that you are somehow less than a man or "not alpha" because you do certain things consciously to influence her attraction to you is utter bullsh!t. Why don't some of you try to step outside your box and once in a while, WHEN IT IS TO YOUR ADVANTAGE, operate OUTSIDE this evolutionary model that entertains this notion of an alpha male. Now I am not saying don't be alpha, play right into that system WHEN it is to your advantage, but don't view any one model as the end all and be all of success with women.

posted 10-01-2002 01:03 AM            

Garp is made to say...

"You guys who are speaking from an holier than thou attitude protecting the holy principles of AD with such religious fervor are idiots, self delusioned to thinking you are in control when you say "men approach" and "conversation focuses on her". Hypocritcal don't you think? You are succumbing to every prescribed societal dating dynamic handed down to you."

Oh, what a Pook am I! To go against the vanities that fury the youth! Oh Wisdom, for you shall forever lay shouting from the streets!

But why stop there? For if what you say is true that we give up our minds to have 'societal dating dynamics handed down to us' then... Here are my eyes; now describe beauty to me. Here are my ears; show me the symphony of Time and Nature. Here is my life; now live yours for me.

Is this not ridiculous? Oh thank the heavens that the Internet was invented now! For if we were still using paper, these 'discussions' would overflow all civilization. Now our posts can run to the infinite degree.

"I would hope that people don't go to a message board to become DJs to get meaning for their life.
Go to a church or something--this is just an exchange of information"

Exchange of information!? Very very few people are interested in information. Let me illustrate:

Pook sets up two people who have different viewpoints on a political topic. He then has them watch the SAME news program that is about that topic.

How now! What are the results?

Almost always, the one of viewpoint A only sees the information he thinks backs his position. The other of viewpoint B sees only the information that HE thinks backs his position.

All is vanity. Is the academic really looking for information? Or is he trying to create an image/career for himself? Are not most people merely shells of ego, merely seeing what they want to see and skating on idealogy?

In the end, one sees that it is chasing wind. For we are all poisoned with Time, and no idealogy will save us. That is why when De la Soul asks me on the Kill the Desperation! thread what my philosophy was, I said there was none. We are all caught within nature's laws and the flux of time. For example, women operate in a certain way that has consistantly defied explanations from men since Time Eternal. But no matter how attractive and sweet our Nice Guy philosophies were, we had to give them up for the truth. And no matter how shattering it is to our world views, we must descend deeper into this abyss.

Since this forum is like the Roman forum where booty was always the focus (they wanted to conquer nations; we want to conquer women), shall we embrace the gentle philosophy of Horace when he says:

Tra la la la, my youth,
Tra la la la, is formed here.

For ESPN says...

Why a INDIVIDUAL cannot have the same PASSION for seduction?Why he cannot use his effort, energy and time to study, learn with other successful people in that area, make this one of his highest ambitions?

When I was a kid, I loved going to the beaches. I was charmed and dazzled by the spectacular sea-shells scattered about. They were so beautiful.

So I collected them. I spent my time collecting the pretty sea-shells. When I got back home, the dazzling sea-shells were gone. All I had was snail-shells and dirty pieces.

And, once again, this same thing occurs to me with women. I thought they were so beautiful. So I collected them. And boy, did I think I was SOMEBODY then! All those pathetic twerps were DATING them and all. I kept comparing my new self to the AFC and considered myself vastly superior. I got very vain.

But what snapped me out of it was realizing that ANYONE can get women. That the STUPIDEST GUYS EVER were getting girls left and right. Then I realized that getting girls was no substancial achievement. You do not turn into 'demi-god' because you sleep with chicks. Then I recognized the process around me. I saw other guys, once getting laid, become supremely arrogant and proud. This was rather disgusting since they had absolutely no talent (how could they? They were spending ALL their time chasing chicks, getting drunk, etc.)

It was then that I realized that success with women can spell utter disaster for the young male. Better that he be a frustrated Nice Guy and have his time focused into something useful, something substancial than to descend into some bucking creature, completely enslaved in Nature's grasp.

What a shame! It takes twenty years to make a Man, and only twenty minutes for a woman to undo him!

But an Oreo hops up to this grand marble forum to say,

you want every1 to understand what you have, you must learn that they cant pook, every1 is different, people tihnk on different levels, if a person is dumb and happy, what could be the harm? you should let them stay the way they are, they might realize you opinions later on, theyll get bored of it soon enuff, and then they might seek a deeper meaning in life

Well, what is the title of this thread?

I'm all for letting people go their own way. The only reason why I'm posting is because Trickynick replying to this year old post, kinda forcing me back on.

Personal information? All right; here is it is. I've become the Nice Guy warped inside out. Everything has become backwards. Fair becomes foul and foul turns into fair. There's no term for this type; it is just 'Pook'.

Today, just today, one girl asks me out. I say no. I made some excuse. She goes on away.

Another girl, (don't know how this got brought up) starts describing her 'dream guy' and then describes me. If that wasn't enough, she wouldn't stop with the kino. (And I never touched her!)

And another girl who had a boyfriend (known her for a little while) decides to come up to me today and say, "My boyfriend is REALLY uncool."

I grunt some response. Alas, she goes on. (Sosuave.com: They ALWAYS go on.

"Really! He wants to marry me, but I never will."

I know exactly what she's doing. She's up to be stolen. I try to shrink away. I want out of the game. Yet, she goes on.

"He's, like, ignoring me!" And she goes on in detail of all the stupid stuff he's done. BTW, I have NO idea of his name. He is just mysteriously known as 'boyfriend'. Everything she tells me is bad about him. Oh, she is kinoing me here and there. Now she wants to know which buildings I'm at when I'm [away], for she tells me she expects to find me up there.

This chick is no ug, she has a dynamite personality, looks great, long flowing hair, and she's a dancer. Yet, I've made NO mark of interest towards her. After hearing all the crud about her bf, I tried to slip out with my mere grunting responses. What sort of response did she want? So eventually I just shrugged and said in a half-asleep type of way, "Well, some guys don't know how lucky they are." Now THAT was a bad thing to say if anything. She, stops, then asks me to repeat it. (NOTE: if you want to steal a gf, use this line when she starts going on of how bad the bf is)

It is the most bizzarre thing. No matter what obstacles I put up: lying that I'm married/ have a gf, that I'm a desperate single, that I don't believe in love, even so far to saying that I'm gay that these damm women won't leave me alone. My focus is on other things, especially on one thing. But they won't leave me alone.

I go to class. A girl will follow me from class. I go grocery shopping. A check-out girl will ask me out. I think, "This won't last. Next week, I'll return to being Mr. Dork." That week never comes. I blow off one chick and three more take her place.

"Pook, quit bragging." But I'm NOT bragging! I am doing NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to get these girls' attention!

"Pook, you must be Brad Pitt." NO! I keep myself looking at an optimum, but I don't compare with many guys.

I have no explanation for this. It is like Nature is in conspiracy against me. As if Nature knows that I'm getting closer and closer to her secret so she sends her women at me.

Guys don't believe me when I tell them this. They go, "You are so full of it, Pook!" If they stick around me, they begin to see it. Then they say, "How are you doing this Pook!?" And they don't believe me when I tell them NOTHING. (If any gals out there has any idea of all the above, please tell).

And then I come onto this board and you guys chant seduction. Seduction! THAT is the last thing I need. Heaven help me if I tried using SS now (which I tried and regretted recently. A girl altered her religion and emailed me three times a day based on just a LITTLE SS I did). SS or any seduction for me now would just blow everything up.

This is going to sound odd but I'm beginnning to sense that there is something operating that demands union, no, insists on it. If you persistantly remain single, bizarre things happen. I get the feeling like I'm breaking some law of Nature and, since Nature cannot tolerate a void, rushes in to fill it.

"Why don't you just go for them?" Because I've become aware of a cost involved in such a relationship for me right now. Also, I want to see how much more bizarre this can get.

THERE is your personal info, Oreo. Unfortunately the answer just raises more questions.

And, as heir to Thrasybulus, Trickynick types to say,

You condemn SS as "boy toy" or "social dildo" behavior because it responds to what makes the woman want to have sex but at the same time you say you are not against seduction.

I'm not against seduction. Seduction is a good thing that can be misused. "In harming women?" No, in harming yourself. There is a point where it crosses a line, where you lose yourself.

You want to have sex with her already, but she needs yet to be raised to buying temperature.

That is exactly one of my chief probs with SS. They believe they are 'raising her temperatures' or 'pushing her buttons' or whatever. No, women are sexual by DEFAULT. If there weren't things like society and standards of reputation, women would be doing guys left and right.

Want proof of this? Tell any woman that you are going to work on your own life, ignore women to your better interests, and do the great noble things. You are going to write the great novel, or compose your symphonies, or do great art, or whatever, and you will have women fiercly protest, "You should go out and live life." Your object has to have them included or they become angry.

Say, "I have only respect for virgin/chaste women!" and the women will despise you and hate you terribly. You have just placed a social standard on them; one that is unnatural to them.

If a woman notices you checking out a woman or seeing a couple be romantic or even the appearance of little infants, they will smile REAL BIG and become HAPPY. They are ANIMATED by the PROCESS. They see the beginning (you checking her out), middle (being lovey-dovey), and fruit (kids) but it is still all part of the sex cycle, which women are the emissaries. You will NEVER have a woman get genuinely excited about something purely philosophical, mathematical, something of transcendent thought unless she is extroadinarily male.

To further prove this, ask anyone who works with women what women talk about. Guys will say, "Women! They are the most foul mouthed creatures on the planet! That is all they seem to talk about! Sex! Sex! And the thoughts and initiations of sex!"

What is Romance? Well, we know what it is to us guys. It is that sense of imagination, that concept we see best represented in the sonnet. Women feel flattered by it, but they do not want it. They do not have the faculties to really get it.

What is Romance to women? It is LICENSE! Women can truly act the way they desire under the guise of 'romance'. They will say, "We are in love" and freely act the prostitute with the guy giving her entertainment. Yes, women want to be adored. But that is only due to them getting their egos from yours. Why does she just sit there and comb her hair to the mirror? Because she is imagining how others will think of her, what she will look like to others, etc. What consciousness in the male sense could she possibly have? Thus, she can never NEVER be alone. To be alone (for women) is to not exist. (TRY to find a woman who cannot live without her cell phone).

But I am getting off topic (Sosuave.com: Yes).

There is WAY too much vanity in SS. These guys literally think they are demi-gods because of the chicks they did. They WANT to believe that they are making chicks horny. But chicks are already horny. They just unleash the horniness in only a socially 'approved' way (enter 'romance' of whatever the age defines it from dating to fire dance). SS merely breaks down whatever barriers the girl has.

Just as guys can choose never to be with That Fat Hag, girls can choose to never be with a certain guy. Not romance, not seduction, not even SS can stop it. (But SS doesn't dwell on this since it just NEXTs her).

Women feel ashamed making the first moves. That is why they want you to be seducers. It is not because they want you to seduce them (make them horny) but to REMOVE that masculine social reputation notion they are seized by. Women want PERMISSION to act they way they actually are. We give it to them when WE go after it.

It is women's complaint that, "You guys are so lucky. The more girls you sleep with, the more of a 'stud' you become. The more guys we sleep with, the more of a 'slut' we become!"

Notice that she wants to be the slut.

Now, Anti-Dump, Doc Love and people with similar views assume that if she isn't at buying temperature WITHOUT your having influenced it, there is NOTHING you can do and THAT is the attitude that I think is AFC and I will stick to that opinion regardless of how unpopular it may be among people who are in agreement with certain very dominant influences on this website.

The question is CAN you alter the woman? Are they so stupid that they must be herded into the sexual slaughterhouse with your hounds of seduction?

Or are YOU being herded into the slaughterhouse of Nature's cycle with women being Nature's bait?

This idea that you are somehow less than a man or "not alpha" because you do certain things consciously to influence her attraction to you is utter bullsh!t.

Oh no! That is not in my thoughts at all. My thoughts sum into: "Are you REALLY controlling her? For if you aren't, then YOU are the one being controlled! If SHE isn't the one being conquered, then WHO IS? Why, it is Trickynick!

This is either-or. There is no middle ground. Either we are playing them or they are playing us.

First, it's not about communicating your interest but INFLUENCING HERS. Your influence over a woman is the product of her attraction to you. Expressing your interest does nothing for you unless you demonstrate value to her.

To me, the above is a contradiction. You see women as things to be INFLUENCED, to be MADE HORNY. I hold that they are ALREADY HORNY but that it is locked away in certain social locks.

You say that woman is to be influenced! Then you say that you are to prove that you are a value to her! But it cannot be both. Women either-or or not. They are either passive clay to be 'influenced upon' or they are acting predators, ready to devour the PRIZE nearby. (I hold that they are the predators that devour the PRIZE especially since women would rather share and compete for ONE prize than each have their own faithful loser).

Second, He acts like the number/date bit is his only option. If he is wants to communicate his interest like he (you actually) implies in that statement then why is content llet girls mop the floor with him playing phone number routlette while he neglects the much more effective path of having a tongue-down session and/or fvcking her on the spot.

Notice how the beginning of this thread said that I thought SS was, for most part, worthless for LONG TERM RELATIONSHIPS. That was Anti-Dump's focus. Of course screwing the chick immediately probably won't result in a satisfying LTR.

Anti-Dump was well aware of SS. So is Doc Love. So are others. Yet, they say things different from SS. Why is that?

The big problem with Speed Seduction is that they confuse results with knowledge. You can get tons of girls while being totally off on their true nature. Understanding women is not a prerequisite to success. In fact, the more a male discovers about a woman, the more he's apt to avoid them.

He left because he got tired of the nice guys? Maybe he saw too much of himself in them. What's the difference between him and them other then he's been kicked around a little but been to dense to change his methods in any way but closing down completely into this mechanical way of thinking.

Have we not all been kicked around? If we were already successful with women, we wouldn't originally come to this forum.

There is a name for guys like Anti-Dump, it's called AFC.

There is a word for sentences like this; it's called stupid.

Examine your conscious, good Trickynick. Look to this wild vanity that flows through your veins, that is making you talk LIKE this ALL the TIME. Consider that women may be the ones using YOU for their own pleasures and that you are being drained from it in ways you cannot possibly imagine. Consider that your pleasure in it is but a mirage (for it is womanly, it is women who obsess over the physical relaxements from their smelly candles to pillows to chocolate cakes...) Women putter near the ground but man was made to soar in transcendent arc.

But as for now, I grow weary of you. Our disagreement of Speed Seduction has nothing to do with Speed Seduction but everything to do on the devouring nature of Women.

What is woman? Is she a booty to be conquered or is she the conquerer? Are men the prize to be 'caught' as a 'great catch' or are they the hunters? How can women destroy and create at the same time? Why is it that men create revolutions (of technology, of politics, of history) but women only create anarchy? Why is it the more our thoughts go toward women they end up being reflected back that we end up thinking about MEN?

She is the enigma that holds all of us in her grasp at this website.

------------------
POOK
------------------------
"As you think, you shall become."

posted 10-01-2002 10:32 AM            

------------------
How we handle our thoughts is how we determine if we will evolve or devolve.

posted 10-01-2002 11:22 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Garp:
Pook--think of all the symphonies and great art you could have produced in the time it took to think out and write this post. Seems to me that what's consuming your time is your urge to debate with your fellow man here.
If you really want to distance yourself from women, print this most recent post of yours and read it aloud everytime you get hit on. I can assure you that even the dimmest woman will be repulsed by it.

---

Just because she will be repulsed by it, doesnt mean it isnt true...

I'd like to thank you pook, for making me think. Truly inspiring posts like these are quite rare, and you certainly did pull me out of my comfort zone.

posted 10-01-2002 11:46 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pook:

But what snapped me out of it was realizing that ANYONE can get women.
That the STUPIDEST GUYS EVER were getting girls left and right.

---

I didn't get this one, seems that you keep looking to the others to see if they are acting superior or inferior to you, and then you create a whole philosophy and rationalization around a more superior way of acting to integrate this in your daily life(ex: playing hard to get), not there is something wrong with that, again, this is just a TASTE

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pook:

Then I realized that getting girls was no substancial achievement.

---

Depends of what you consider as a achievement, again TASTE
Pook isn't you doing the whole "Focus in life, not woman" for YOUR personal satisfaction, your personal happiness? And anything different from this is saw by you as ''inferior way for me'' so your path became YOUR way to HONOR your self?
And isn't a speed seducer doing the same thing?

posted 10-01-2002 01:05 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Garp:
If you really want to distance yourself from women, print this most recent post of yours and read it aloud everytime you get hit on. I can assure you that even the dimmest woman will be repulsed by it.

---

And that's the difference between Men and Women. Women may find disdain in something and call it "repulsive" because it may lead to ugly truths.

Men may also find disdain in something but will try to learn from it.

The truth is not always pretty. But it is valid.