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Master Don Juan
posted 07-13-2001 03:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ralfus   Click Here to Email Ralfus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From Cliff's seduction newsletter:

Hey guys, it's been a little while since I've posted anything, so I'm going
to make up for it again with a long one...

I've been busy lately working on, of all things, writing a book.

Cliff told me to mention it here (thanks Cliff).

I have a website now called www.doubleyourdating.com where I offer it if,
you'd like to come check it out -- and I'll tell you more about it at the
end of this post.


Because I've been interacting with a lot of guys who have been buying my
book, I've been realizing some things that I never thought about before.

I have to start and frame this by telling you about a couple of common
business strategies. I think I've mentioned that I've done a lot of work in
marketing. Here's something that is very common:

Most small businesses make a HUGE mistake when they begin their marketing
campaigns... they look at big companies who are making millions and then try
to COPY what those big companies are doing. This makes sense logically. The
owners of these new small companies are saying "Hey, if it works for them,
then it will work for me. I'll just copy the best and get the same results."

Well, you might have heard that approximately 96% of new businesses GO OUT
of business.

The problem with copying the big boys is that it takes a different marketing
strategy to GROW a business than it does to MAINTAIN a business once it has
become successful.

The question that small business owners SHOULD be asking is "When that
successful business was brand new, what kind of marketing did it do to
BECOME successful?"

Are you with me here? Instead of looking at what big businesses are doing
NOW, they should be looking at what the big business DID when it was new in
order to grow.

This metaphor seems to translate over to men who are learning to be
successful with women.

Guys who are new to the idea of learning how to meet women often look at
what the killer pick up artists are doing and try to copy them.

I remember when I started out... I was all fascinated with getting phone
numbers, learning slick lines, and all of the psychology.

Now, there's nothing wrong with learning from pros... I give credit to my
friends who have helped me learn the skills that I have... BUT, and it's a
big one...

I think that most guys should be asking the pros "What did you do when you
STARTED learning this stuff to get to the point where you are now?"

I like to ask things like "When you first started learning to approach
women, what did you do to overcome the fear of rejection?"

That question will get you a lot further than "What do you say to a woman
when you meet her?"

Does this make sense to you? It's useful to study the structure and
progression of how the pros learned and grew - more so than just asking what
they do now.

By the way, you'll find a lot of the times you ask a killer pick-up artist
these types of "How did you learn this..." and "What did you do when you
started..." they will remember things that they've long since forgotten

You'll get answers like "Wow, I completely forgot about this... but when I
started, the first thing I did was go out to a shopping mall and talk to
women who were selling men's clothing... because I knew I could try things
and they had to talk to me..." etc.

With that said, I'm going to tell you about some more of my perspectives on
how to become great with women... I call this:

"Six Critical Mistakes Men Make With Women... And What To Do About It"

(That's my marketing side coming out... ha) I've taken this idea of "What
should a guy do when he's learning?" and built what you're about to read.
Some of it is theory, and some is technique. I hope you enjoy.


Gerry Spence, in his amazing book "How To Argue And Win Every Time" (The 2
tape series is the best) talks about the idea of giving your power away to

When you let the idea of a woman rejecting you stop you from walking over
and talking to her, you're GIVING AWAY YOUR POWER.

When you allow what someone says about you to affect your mood and self
esteem, you're GIVING AWAY YOUR POWER.

A lot of people have a strategy which involves linking their self-image and
self-esteem to things that they IMAGINE, and to events that happen outside
of them (i.e. rejection by a woman).

This is also giving away power to others.

When I first started, I sat down and did a bit of rational thinking about
different situations with women.

I asked myself questions like:
"If a woman rejects me in public, right in front of 50 people, what will the
effect be on me and my life?"

"If I go to kiss a woman, and she pushes me away, what is the worst thing
that can happen?"

"If I call a woman, and she's rude to me on the phone, what will the result

Then I listed what the WORST possible outcomes could be. I mean things like
"Well, if she rejects me, my friends could laugh at me and everyone could
think I'm a dork..."

I thought of every result that I could.

Then I asked myself "Can I live with that?" and "Will that actually hurt me
in any way?"

Now, I'll tell you, it was hard for me to admit to myself that I was afraid.
I didn't like the idea that I was afraid of women and what they thought of

But when I finally admitted it to myself, and started rationally thinking of
what the worst case scenarios would be and, MORE IMPORTANTLY IF I COULD LIVE
WITH THEM a lot started to happen.

I realized that if a woman rejected me, that I'D GET OVER IT. I'd actually

I realized that the first few times it happened it might be a little
traumatic, but by preparing myself to deal with whatever happened, it gave
me the courage to go out and try some things (more on that later).

In summary: Don't give away your power. Keep your power for you. If you have
to, face your fear internally, resolve to handle the worst case scenario,
then get on with TAKING ACTION.


Here's the deal: Most of the guys I have met and talked to have some kind of
'automatic' emotional reactions that come up for them when it comes to
meeting women... and most of the time, the automatic reactions are
destroying their success.

I personally think that it's quite natural for a guy to get all excited when
he meets a woman that's attractive to him. It charges the body and makes you
feel alive.

But the problem is that it also 1) Often prevents a guy from taking action,
saying hi, or whatever because his fear level rises, and 2) Often makes that
guy start acting unnatural when he finally does get the balls to start
talking... can I hear an AMEN?

I assume that by being on this list you have probably had at least some
experience with NLP, Hypnosis, Huna, etc.

These are all great ways to learn to manage your emotions.

The problem is that most guys don't actually take the time to learn and
practice the techniques that these disciplines teach in order to get their
situation handled.

I used to get all kinds of freaked out when I thought of walking up and
talking to a woman. This would usually prevent me from even trying, as I
felt like I'd screw it up.

It took me awhile to learn how to chill a bit, but when I finally did, I was
able to be about 10x as effective. I actually enjoy a little bit of that
rush that happens when I see a woman that I'm about to go meet. It feels
good. But too much can really throw me off.

So I use a couple of exercises that I learned from Timeline Therapy to chill
my emotions.

If I need to calm down quickly, or to stay calm, I just imagine going all
the way into the future on my timeline and then looking back to now... then
quickly snapping back to the present moment. I do this about three times in
a row, all in about 2 seconds. This works great for me.

Now, here's the kicker: I had to try a couple of dozen things to find this
one. And I had to try it a few ways in order to get it to work for me.

I'd recommend getting some note cards an writing down 10 exercises to calm
you down or make you stay calm, then go out where there are hot women,
imagine walking up and talking to one, then read a card and try the

Read "Feel The Fear And Do It Anyway" by Jeffers, "Frogs Into Princes" by
Bandler and Grinder, and "The Secret Of Creating Your Future" by James for


One of the things that learning all of this stuff about how to meet women
has made me realize is that there are a few major points in any "seduction"
that stump most guys.

I've made a list of 10, and I call them "Critical Moments." These are:
1. Approach (Walking over and saying hello)
2. Digits (Getting a phone number, email address, etc.)
3. Date request (This can actually be done when you first meet)
4. Date (The actual time with her)
5. Hold hands (The first sustained physical contact)
6. Kiss (The first 'intimate' contact)
7. Alone in private (Trust)
8. Make out (Sexually aroused)
9. Clothes off (Very sexually aroused)
10. Sex (Very very very sexually aroused!)

I'd say that somewhere around 90-95% of the questions that I get about how
to meet women are in one of these 10 areas.

I'd bet that if you're having trouble, it fits into one of these categories.

I don't get a lot of guys writing me to say "What kind of car impresses
women most?" or "What kind of cologne should I wear?" These are fine
questions, but they're not the killer stumping points.

The interesting thing about the Critical Moments is that each usually

In each of these moments, the woman is usually perceived to have all the
power. If she stops the game, it's over.

This makes a lot of guys feel pretty weak and powerless.

In martial arts, it takes months of practice to prepare for a tournament
that lasts minutes. With women, each of these Critical Moments usually
passes in a few minutes or seconds. These moments don't make up very much of
the time that you're usually together with her, but they are the KEYS to
whether the relationship will go to a physical level.

In any event, I realized that I REALLY DON'T LIKE REJECTION. I don't really
see a need for it... I don't think that it's necessary to invite it into my

So I asked myself "How do I get past all of these Critical Moments with a
MINIMUM of even the possibility of rejection?"

My answer is what I call my "Bridges." I've created techniques for setting
up each moment that make it very natural for the woman to continue through,
and many times, even INITIATE it.

If you've read my past posts, you know about some of my ideas and techniques
around getting email addresses and phone numbers, teasing, turning women on,

For instance, if you ask a woman for her phone number, you have a situation
where you could get a rejection... on the other hand if you ask "Do you have
email?" most women will say "Yes" at which point you can take out a pen and
just pretend that she also meant "Yes I'll give it to you..."

This works like a charm... and while she's writing her email you just say
"And write your number there too..."

This little "Bridge" will up your results by 50-100% or more if you use
it... and it's so simple.

My suggestion for you is to organize what you've learned from different
sources and create your own set of Bridges to get you past the points that
you're having trouble with.

By preparing for these SPECIFIC moments, you'll increase your success


Most of the guys that I know who are great at picking up women are not

Most of them are not tall.

Most of them are not millionaires.

Most are not famous.

But almost ALL of them pay attention to how they look, and they do their
best to present themselves well when they meet women.

Now, I don't think that you have to start spending $500.00 on t-shirts and
build a Muscle Media body.

I honestly believe that most women (Yes, even the super hot ones) are more
interested in your personality in the long run.

BUT, I also believe that if you look BAD, you're going to cause women to
pre-judge you too much and ruin your chances.

A few pointers:
- Neat, stylish, well kept hair

- Little or no facial hair, no uni-brow, etc.

- Clean, non-wrinkled clothing that fit you well

- Nice, clean shoes and belt (matching)

- Very clean face and body (wash whole body a MINIMUM of three times each

- Neat and clean hands, fingernails, feet, toes, etc.

- ***BIG ONE: The teeth! Make sure they're clean, flossed, and no bad breath

Now, you might have to actually spend a little while learning a few things
about style and fashion.

I personally wear a lot of Calvin Klein t-shirts (untucked) with nice black
jeans, and nice black leather square-toe shoes (Nordstrom Rack for $50).

This whole getup can be had for about a hundred bucks or so... and it works
just about anywhere from Starbucks to a club.

Do yourself a favor and make the best of what you have. Even if you're not
Brad Pitt, you can still look your best.


A lot of guys that I talk to are just not willing to change the way that
they communicate.

If you have a weak, high pitched voice... lowering it and speaking more
deeply will make you more attractive to most women.

If you have nervous ticks, it will help you to practice not doing them -
they make women nervous.

If you have no sense of humor, it will help you to cultivate one (this is a
big one, guys).

I get a lot of guys that don't want to change... they just want things to
happen for them.

Summed up, it goes like this: Some guys would rather be 'themselves' than be

I'm not suggesting that you sacrifice your unique individuality here, I'm
just saying that there are ways you can improve yourself, that won't make
you an ass-kisser, that will make you more successful

So get yourself a tape series on how to improve your voice. Read about how
to calm yourself down so you're not nervous. Get a couple of books on comedy
(I love Comedy Writing Secrets by Helitzer).

Go down to the bookstore and look at the 'Communication Skills' section.

If you keep working on improving your basic communication skills, you'll
keep improving with women.


Have you noticed on this list that a lot of guys argue with an idea before
they try it? Or they discredit someone else's idea and say that theirs is

Guys love to say "That won't work" or "I tried that and it doesn't work"...

Many times, this leads to a negative attitude that prevents them from even
trying other things... or of not trying something again that didn't work the
first time.

I think that it's important to test new things at least 3-5 times, and maybe

The first times I approached women weren't very smooth... I didn't get their
numbers or whatever.

The problem wasn't the lines I was using or the techniques... it was my

I can walk up to any woman and open up a conversation with just about
ANYTHING now... I have tried all kinds of crazy openers just to see if they'
ll work.

Now that I have some skills, things that didn't work before work for me now.

So I recommend that if you like an idea, try it a bunch of times.

If it doesn't work for you now, try it again in 3 months. Keep trying new
ideas and new things until you find things that work TOGETHER. Remember, it'
s a system of different things working together that will get you the result
that you want.

Now, some people have the problem that they won't try new things in the
first place... they're just too set in their ways.

I like to ALWAYS try new ways of doing things.

If I'm driving home, I'll try to drive a new way. If I'm explaining
something, I try explaining it two ways, if I'm ordering food, I try new

This mindset of trying new things leads to an open mind, and an attitude of
"Hey, here's how that might work... I'll try it" rather than one of "Here's
what's wrong with that idea."

If you find yourself arguing with every idea before you try it, then it's
probably a good idea for you to start messing up your routines in life and
start trying new things in all areas... it will help you in THIS area.

OK, my fingers are tired.

More about my new book: If you come to my website at www.doubleyourdating.com you can read about it. I've written a book that's
about 90 pages long and three bonus booklets that are each about 10 pages.

I've expanded all of my ideas and explained them in detail, and I've been
getting some great feedback on it. If you want to learn more about the ideas
you've just read, that's the place to do it.

When you arrive at my page, enter your email so you can get my free email
newsletter, too.

My pen name for the book is David DeAngelo, so now you'll know that this is
actually me in disguise (wait a minute, I'm in disguise now too! lol).

Come visit.

Thanks for all the great ideas, and I wish you well.




Master Don Juan
posted 07-13-2001 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FGarcia1   Click Here to Email FGarcia1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
WHOA. Lots of info. Thanks much.



[This message has been edited by FGarcia1 (edited 07-13-2001).]



posted 07-13-2001 04:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Drew     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ahhh, Sisonpyh... great info, just like his other stuff.

Here's a post of the last time Sisonpyh knowledge made an appearance on our boards. It was recieved greatly then also.


DJ Monk

Don Juan
posted 07-13-2001 05:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DJ Monk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sisonpyh has got it all down!
Excellent article.

DJ Monk



Master Don Juan
posted 07-14-2001 12:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ralfus   Click Here to Email Ralfus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Ralfus' Home Page - Even if the counter only works once in awhile.


Heart Of Stone

Don Juan
posted 07-14-2001 12:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart Of Stone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
39.95 for an e-book. Oh please!!!



posted 07-15-2001 07:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sosuave.com   Click Here to Email sosuave.com     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Moving to Tips forum.


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