Nice Guys and Jerks
Women - Page 3
I know why women (especially younger ones) prefer jerks over nice guys. This is because I am young (18) and have ditched many a nice guy so I could pursue a jerk.
I am not looking for a relationship, or a potential husband and by dating assholes and jerks I am 90% guaranteed that a lasting relationship will not develop between the jerk and myself.
I am told that I am a bitch, and I perceive myself as one. And I think that the reason I get so many men is for the same reason in reverse. Young people (and immature older people) are not looking for a relationship. So before entering a dating situation there has to be some sort of guarantee that nothing serious will develop -- and dating a bitch or an asshole is just the guarantee that people like me are looking for.
I'm a 31 year old woman engaged to the man of my dreams. He's intelligent, egalitarian, kind, cultured, family-oriented, and happy. There is not a drop of jerk in him, but like most women in their 20s, I chose and dated a wide variety of losers.
Young women like "bad boys" for many of the same reasons that young men like demanding, high-maintenance women who treat them like doormats.
In youth, having little experience in the real world, our perceptions are most colored by images and impressions from TV, magazines, films, etc. Nothing is more important in high school than image, and in their 20s, most people are only beginning to question this.
Unfortunately, people who have used image as their currency, by this point, have not had to develop very deeply on an emotional level. In addition, they are used to being treated as royalty because of their movie-star looks, and believe that it's their right to treat other people shabbily. Thus, as long as we seek partners with a certain "look", we are asking to be with men or women who are not terribly emotionally developed and who have an undeserved sense of entitlement.
Women start to see the light in their late twenties. Some men never do. My advice to the nice guys whose decency might be hampering their dating success is to widen the pool of women they consider. A current philosophy among some (male) dating gurus is to never date a woman over 30, as they are too set in their ways, hate men, and are starting to lose their looks anyway. Wrong, wrong, wrong!
Older women have developed depth of character, have learned that "nice guys" are the way to go, and are in their sexual prime. In addition, they know who they are sexually, and are unashamed and unafraid to experiment and to take and give pleasure. Sex with a woman over 35 might be some of the best sex a man will ever have.
The problem with dating women under 25, which seems to be the goal for many men of all age groups, is that one will have to contend with the image-seeking behavior of youth. Unless a man is equally shallow and image-driven -- and most men over 30 are not -- women in their 30s, 40s, and up can be a goldmine of interesting and wonderful experiences.
Women also don't like nice guys because too often they seem like pushovers. If they can't stand up for themselves how can they stand up for us and be the "typical male protector"?
Guys, guys, guys... you're all making this much too complicated. Here are the things that most (I say most, not all, because there are some genuinely disturbed people out there) women really want:
Confidence — You've heard it before, and here it is again. Women not only want but NEED a man with confidence. Please keep in mind that confidence doesn't mean arrogance or self-aggrandizement; just PLEASE don't abase yourself. And don't worry if you can't imagine working up to the point where you can honestly say, "I can go up to Claudia Schiffer and ask her out at any time," -- personal confidence is much more important than situational confidence.
Strength — No, I don't mean that you have to be able to lift a VW Bug. Strength of character, strength of conviction, strength of thought, etc., are much more important than being an Adonis. And, please, no "whinging" (a combination of whining and cringing). Sniveling is pretty high up there on the list of turn-offs. One more note on this point: despite popular myth, most women really don't want to be your mother, so don't cry to your girlfriend like she is. It's good to show emotion, but we don't want to see you crying at a maxi-pad commercial. If nothing else, we want to feel that our man is tougher than we are. Really, that's all that we ask in that department.
Sincerity — PUH-LEEZE don't try to pretend to be something or someone that you're not (even if you're just pretending to be a nice guy). When we can see through your deception (and that's the majority of the time) it insults us, and when we can't we end up getting burned and bitter because of it.
Caring — Again, no crying at feminine hygiene commercials, but we really do like it if you listen to us. I know, I know - "But it makes my ears bleed to hear about my girlfriend's problems". Get over it. Just listen and show that her concerns are important to you, but -- and this is important -- don't try to fix her problems unless she asks you to. When women vent we're doing just that - venting. We have to get our problems aired out so that we can really look at them. Don't ask me why, it's a quirk of nature. Take it as a compliment if a woman decides to air her problems to you, it shows that she trusts you. That's why we get so pissed-off when you don't listen -- deep down that makes us feel that we can't really trust you. And last but certainly not least on the list of reasons why you should listen to us vent: we won't be nearly as bitchy. We don't nag because we're super-pissed-off that you didn't do some mundane thing, it's that the problems that we didn't have a chance to examine are eating us up, and we genuinely think that your not taking the trash out or your going out with you friends is the root of our rage.
Those are the core values. The rest, of course, vary from woman to woman. For example, I personally prefer a man who is polite and even chivalrous (and this is not from some old crone pecking away at the keyboard - I'm barely 20) , but some women actually get offended if you hold the door open for them (they think that you think that they're weak or that you're being patronizing). That's their opinion, and I'm not going to down them for it.
That being said, there are some very important reasons why some women won't go for nice guys even if they're right in front of their noses, and they mostly relate to some prior break-down in the "core values":
*They believe that a nice guy is too good to be true. This belief has come into being because at some point in their life they went to sleep with Dr. Jekyll and woke up with Mr. Hyde. The woman felt betrayed, and more importantly felt that her ability to gauge people was off. Because of that, some would rather take the jerk at face value than risk being hurt again. I know that it's not fair to the genuinely nice guys out in the world, but life's not fair.
*The nice guys, lacking confidence in themselves, won't even approach a girl that they're interested in. We're not psychic (although I know that many times we unfairly ask ya'll to be) - we don't know about your interest if you don't tell us.
*A man's hyped-up interest in us freaks us out. It shouldn't have to be this way, but it is. Our culture has gotten us to the point where we're paranoid of everyone that could conceivably do us any harm. If a guy really likes us and calls us immediately after he sees us, we're afraid that he's a potential stalker. This may seem far-out to some of you, but there are some sick people out there, and a lot of women have had experience with less than stable men.
Any other reasons why a girl would pass up a nice guy are beyond me. Sometimes the chic's just messed up and feels that she doesn't deserve any better, or takes some sort of odd masochistic pleasure out of being the butt of someone's abuse. And trust me, if you're really a nice guy you don't want to get caught up in a relationship with that person even if she could be an underwear model. I certainly don't want you to - she might end up convincing you that you have to be a jerk to make it in the world.
Have hope, nice guys!
I am a woman in a relationship with a man who treats me like gold. He is a nice guy. I used to like jerks, but liking a nice guy is totally different. There is none of the constant wondering and worrying and pain. I think it is a question of maturity. And I think once you go "nice," you never go back.
Nice guys can be ok at times, but it can get boring fast if they don't make the first move after a week or two.
Most woman find "jerks" intriguing at first... just as when you're a teenager, a guy with a Harley and ponytail is intriguing. Would we want to settle with the rebel? No, but it excites us. Danger.
I am a woman and I can remember being infatuated with jerks in high school and college. Now, I am happily married to a nice guy going on four years strong.
I feel that when women are immature they prefer immature men because that is all that they can handle. When we grow up a bit, we can be truly happy with a wonderful man in a lasting relationship.
However, having said all that, there are some women who go through an entire lifetime seeking out jerks because of their inability to grow up.
Alright, I read some of your responses from women and noticed that most of them seemed older. And since a lot of guys who go here seem to be around my age (17), I figured I would put my 2 cents in.
I don't like the nice guy. To me he's a definite turn off. He seems too timid to pursue intimacy, and personally I love it when a guy is real horny (as long as he's attractive and knows when to stop). It makes me feel a lot more comfortable.
I'm not saying I like jerks, I like the funny guy who always has something interesting or colorful to say. Normally girls look for someone of their 'niceness quotient' or lower. Feeling like the jerk in the relationship is no fun. Of course, neither is being the 'bitch' so it's totally up to the chick. Maybe u nice guys should get a bit more bold, not necessarily 'jerk-ish'
I am a talented, loving, & I've been told, beautiful woman. I've also had my fill of Jerks! You know the ones -- never have time for you but time for everything & everybody else, never get invited to their friends get togethers, even though you know their friends would like you, & probably be checking you out because he's already talked about you a lot, always sending mixed messages about the way he feels about you, generally talking to you about everything & everyone in their lives but NEVER letting you in.
Actions speak louder than words. I've finally come to realize that I will never let another Jerk into my life, because I have way too much to offer a Real Man who knows what he wants and isn't afraid to show it & say it while he looks me in my beautiful eyes!
A Man who is strong & independent but is also concerned with me and my life. A Man who can be as passionate, kind, and honest as I. A Man who is proud to introduce me to his friends as I would introduce him to mine. No head games anymore. If it clicks go for it with all you have!
I'm a woman and I don't see how any guy out there possibly thinks that a woman would prefer a jerk over a gentleman.
Women like men who are considerate, sexy, smart, strong, and manly. But never mistaken any of it for jerkiness. That's a total turn off. Perhaps those guys who were getting laid a lot attracted women who weren't interested in anything too serious. That's why there jerkiness worked for them. Who knows?
Everyone likes to be pursued - because all of us are insecure about something. Women love jerks because they find something in them that they think that they can only see - they know that even though a guy is a jerk sometimes that it generally isn't all the time and any smart woman would leave a man who was a jerk more often than not.
The problem is though that both men and women do not know when to stop being the jerk and start being the nice guy/girl. All long term relationships have some of this - its a balancing act that occurs in a relationship - it is what makes it interesting. People like to be surprised - even if it isn't always good and the jerk thing comes into play here because jerk like behavior is not predictable.
People have gotten spontaneity and excitement confused with bad treatment because they are so freaking repressed - the bad treatment causes a roller coaster of emotions and it is exciting to them.
The trick is to create the excitement externally - together - this is why people share experiences - and people who do fun and exciting things together have a tendency to have happier relationships.
I should say too that it is all in perception as well. I dated jerks my whole life and my lover now is really a nice guy. However I do find things and certain behaviors of his to be jerk-like and annoying. But mostly I think it's in my own head and a experience that I am creating myself because of my past experiences with jerks. So my expectations are for him to be jerk-like and I manage to find things that could be twisted into that.
Just my 2 cents.