Nice Guys and Jerks
Men - Page 8
If a woman starts playing you for a fool, tell her that you have better women to date, since they lack respect for you; and walk away... just walk away. They hate losing, and will follow you like a little puppy.
Like that great scene in the original Star Trek series where "Kahn " grabs the woman's arm and pushes her away saying "Go... or stay. But do it, because you want to." I bet every guy who saw that scene felt like yelling out "Score!"
Great topic! A few years back, I came up with a simple, non-scientific survey that clearly demonstrates that this strange phenomenon is genuine. I asked ten women I know, if they won a dream date with a Hollywood movie star, would they pick Sean Penn, or Ron Howard?
Nine of the women picked Sean Penn over Ron Howard. I then asked the ones who picked Penn, which one would they rather have raise their children? Each and every one of them turned around 180 degrees, and chose Ron Howard, except for one who got angry about it and refused to speak to me for the next month.
I think the people who are citing human evolution as the cause are on the right track, but they need to take it one step further. Human biological evolution has not kept pace with the evolution of human society. Most human females still tend to find attractive those traits which were advantageous to survival in the stone age. In an era of computers, satellite TV, and nuclear weapons, those traits are no longer advantageous to survival, but our mating instincts have not changed to reflect these changes in our physical environment. Therefore, the Ron Howards of the world find themselves at a very distinct disadvantage when it comes to passing on the genes to the next generation.
So what does the nice guy have to do to get laid in this confused day and age? Well, if we continue to find attractive in females those traits which were advantageous to survival in the stone age, we'll probably continue to find ourselves coming in last. We need to set our sights considerably higher than that, and seek out the significant minority of women who would prefer see the human species evolve to a level that matches that of our technological development. If we can do that, the future will belong to us, and the Neanderthal riff-raff will simply fade away into oblivion.
As a guy I think that the difference in being a jerk and a nice guy is subtle and it has to do with being able to accept rejection.
A nice guy will first try to be friendly with a women so that she likes him for who he is. But he does not come off as being interested in the woman romantically in order to reduce the chances of rejection. Women see this and in turn state that they only want to be friends if he tries being romantic, since the nice guy initially came across as a friend.
A jerk on the other had will state his intentions right off the bat and it's up to the woman to decide whether she is also interested. But at least here she knows where he stands.
A woman will either be interested in a man or not when he comes off as being interested in her romantically. Being nice and hiding your true intent only serves to position men as not really being interested even if he is. When he tries to be romantic, he is not seen as genuine.
It's important to let a woman know that you are interested in her romantically while giving her the impression that you will not smother her and try to sleep with her right away. Kiss her on the first date. Touch her hands, her back. Tell her you find her attractive and so on. Every time I followed the scenario I scored. And when I didn't, I did not get laid.
In summary, tell her right off the bat what you are thinking and what is on your mind, and be a little aggressive without being overbearing. Good luck.
Hi. I'm 34, male, athletic, generally confident, open-minded and looking for someone who likes to dress up one night and play in the mud the next. Here's my take on the situation. The Nice Guy and The Jerk also applies to the woman. Let's take a look.
There are three "categories." There's:
1) Nice Guy
3) Good Guy
Nice Guy is like the following: "Being inoffensive, shy, boring, lacking self-confidence — almost always bad." It's never good. Although, at times, intended to be a good "label" by the gal, it has brutally negative connotations for Man. After a seemingly good date... assuming that's what he's on, the gal comments to her friend "He's a nice guy." Man hears this. An icy, chilly chill shoots up his spine. And he squints, semi-graciously accepting the well-intended compliment from his new friend. "Gee. Thanks."
The gal can also deliver the "tempered slam" (she can be good at this, being naturally indirect creatures): "Well, he's a nice guy" (with the takeaway being "Well, he's a nice guy, but that's not what I want.") Man's heart drops into his stomach. He's dead in the water. (Cue "Taps".)
Now, I don't know about the shy thing. Shy Guy can still have some backbone and be interesting. He requires the gal to be patient and take a little initiative with him to ask the questions/make the comments and take time with him. A lot to ask in an unnecessarily fast-paced, demanding, impatient, "I want it NOW!" American society. But it's not necessarily a bad thing. SG just needs to be considerate enough to make sure Woman doesn't end up having a conversation with herself! (If he's interested.)
You'd probably be amazed of the relationship you can develop with that approach with Shy Guy (patience, asking the questions/comments, taking time). SG can be very loyal and dedicated if befriended in this manner. They're just different than Jerk's strong personality/self-confidence. A more highly evolved SG can be more secure in his being and independent and interesting. The less developed Shy Guy may simply not have anything to say, and could be insecure as a result (or there are other issues). Fun for the gal.
The Jerk is the...um...jerk. How profound you sarcastically sneer. Lemme 'splain, Lucy.
To sum it up he's just an inconsiderate asshole. Or is he? Let's look a little deeper, shall we? Right this way...after you, gerl...
Jerk may find himself on more immature or insecure dates. Why? Because that's who he can relate to, he himself actually being immature. You can say he's more Id - self-centered - (if you're psychologically savvy...like I am...you'll have picked this up from your freshman level psych class in college.) But what does THIS mean? He has a general state of restlessness or unhappiness or...uh...something's just not right.
Now the less evolved Jerk is more asshole and has not learned the manipulation techniques of highly evolved Jerk. Both being immature, he has realized that he somehow gets the girl with his technique. But because he hasn't matured and evolved beyond this level, he cannot quite reach the fuller relationships that Good Guy enjoys. After all, he's only interested in sex, isn't he?
Jerk can easily get stuck in a rut making him a miserable bastard to friends, family, and the ladies.
And none of us can blame him. How can we? We ALL want and need sex.
I personally have a disdain for Jerk because I feel like I have evolved from ameba to a walking land-based, air-breathing Neanderthal. (I don't wanna give myself too much credit...after all...I'm just a dummy man.) Jerk doesn't see the aftermath of his reckless shenanigans. Or he does and doesn't care. Jerk's arrogance is sometimes translated by the ladies as self-confidence. Maybe this is why many gals find herself frustrated, breaking off the relationship. Or according to some Freudians...she knows it won't last so she picks Jerk because she knows the sex is good and someone better will come in the future...hopefully in the near future.
Now on to Good Guy. GG's a dynamic individual. He's human. And he tries. He's probably been Nice Guy. He's probably been Jerk. Not always. I'd guess usually, though, he's been both or been close enough to see one or the other in action. GG's learned from his mistakes. And the more evolved Good Guy tends not to make the same mistake twice. Being "in tune" with people, he's grasped the notion that when you get hit over the head with a hammer, you don't want do that again.
But what makes Good Guy Good Guy is that he's carefully blended the strengths of Nice Guy and Jerk and brings his own strengths to the party. He's considerate. He's self-confident, but not arrogant, walking into the room knowing who he is and he's happy with that. To hell with those who render shallow judgments. We can't be friends with everyone. (Do we really wanna be friends with "them"?) Hm. GG's got backbone to do what he wants in life. He's not arrogant because he's confident of his abilities. He knows his weaknesses and turns them into his strengths for the benefit of himself and those around him. He doesn't take to gain. He gives to gain and so Woman will gain, too. It's a win-win situation that he seeks. GG will not tolerate the wrong done to him or woman or friends. He's also very loving and very passionate.
But now what about the girls? There's more, you ask? This three category theory applies to women in a similar yet slightly different manner, kinda stemming from guys' hypocritical double standard.
1) the Whore ( = Jerk)
2) the Madonna ( = Nice Guy)
3) the um...hm...haven't thought about this descriptor....let's call her Woman. (It's a well-rounded descriptor). ( = Good Guy)
There's a notion that some men suffer from the Madonna-Whore complex. I think Freud was the chump that brings this to our attention. In nutshell, the guy wants to have fun with Whore, but wants to marry Madonna who can be the mother of his children. Notice he doesn't want both in one package. Not good for the lady. What's a girl to do?
Be Whore. Have lots of fun. Never get married. Can get stuck in a rut like Jerk. And she, too, can be an asshole.
Be Madonna. Be well-respected. Nice to hang out with. She gets put up on the pedestal (sp?) by the guy, not to be touched too much. She's more to be admired than to be a participant. She's a great "mom." Which can be taken in the same context for a woman in which the guy is called, "Nice." The guy intends the label to be complimentary. Hm.
Be Woman. She's dynamic. And passionate and caring. Like Good Guy, she's got backbone. Guys trying to get away with nonsense walk away with a headache or worse yet (better for Woman)...single again. Good for her.
How can we really know if a man's Good Guy or gal's a Woman... unless we look? Well, the bottom line is that both do exactly that. And when the two hook up, LOOK OUT!
What we tend to see in a Good Guy-Woman relationship is both being solid people and personalities elevating each other and their relationship beyond the two people they are...being much more than their sum. It's sexually satisfying. It's mentally gratifying. It's spiritually enriching. It's dynamic on all levels. It's a genuine high. And THAT...is real...good.
Well, I have read several of your articles and there lies much insight as to why women pursue jerks over nice guys. The constant theme seems to be that the typical nice guy lacks the confidence that women (and men) of any age or stature always find attractive. I see the merits of this theory, but believe it to be incomplete.
I too am a "nice guy" but am also extremely confident. I think that jerks get a lot of the cuties because they do the most effort during courtship. In the midst of a normal relationship I think that this is untrue, but if you ever watch a jerk try to seduce women at frat parties, they go all out and look mildly retarded.
If a girl doesn't seem initially interested, I allow her space. Jerks do not do this. They will keep smiling, keep nodding, and keep refilling the keg cup until she is ready. And when she wakes up the next day, she doesn't want to be labeled a slut so she tries to make something out of her experience, and here is where the jerk tendencies come in to play.
Also, a typical nice guy will display his interest in a clear and polite manner. This is also known as boring. A jerk may not give a cute girl the time of day, which will leave the hottie wondering what she's doing wrong, and she'll accept this jerk as a Everest like challenge.
You guys probably already know this. I'm no expert in the area which is why I am visiting your site. I just think that these ideas should be tangibly posted in some link to this ongoing debate. Keep up the good work
Being a guy in my mid-thirties, it's been my experience that women younger than me go for the jerks, maybe because they appear "cool," spontaneous, and hip. But women more my age realize that "jerk" means just that - jerk!
I will weigh in on the nice guy versus bad boy debate. Lets be honest here, women don't like nice guys. They like men who they perceive as a challenge, they like men who are dangerous, they like men who they feel will protect them in a fight.
When a guy comes across as nice, women perceive that to be weak. This myth is backed up heavily in pop culture, just look at the covers of romance novels which feature muscle-bound, Fabio clones ripping women's clothes off. The problem is the tough, brooding unpredictable guy is not very reliable. And sometimes being with a dangerous man can land a woman in hot water, ask Pamela Anderson and Whitney Houston.
I think women want to have their cake and eat it, they want a good guy who can be bad occasionally. For more about nice guys and bad boys go to www.xng.8m.com and read the first chapter of "The XNG's Rules of Dating and Sex."
One thing to add on the nice guys V jerks thing: jerks win because in their selfish insensitivity they never hide their raw sexuality. Nice guys in their sensitivity hide their sexuality because they think it will oppress women.
Women are powerfully attracted to guys who are open with their sexuality, thus the jerks win. Now it is important to realize that being open with your sexuality is not about being a macho wanker, but simply about not denying that you wanna have sex with her. She knows it anyway, and if you don't let the world know it, you're headed right for the friendship zone. Which is great if you wanna chat all night only to see her waltz out the door and straight into bed with some asshole who just walked in. But useless if you wanna be the one helping her mess up her sheets.
To be open with your sexuality all you gotta do is be yourself knowing that it is fine to feel sexual about her. Be nice by all means, in fact I would advocate nothing but niceness, but you gotta combine it with strength and let your sexuality shine through. After all, the difference between you and the jerk is that you are nice, he is sexual, but who does she take home?
Nice Guy v Jerk is a non-issue. All you can be is yourself. Why try and be something you're not? You're ok as you are. If you don't get to screw 7 women a week, so what? There are more important things in life than notches on your headboard. Even if you managed to convince someone that you are who you're pretending to be, then she'll like you for the wrong reasons and you've set yourself up to be hurt when she finds out what you're really like. If, on the other hand, she likes you for what you are, then you've got a good result.
Here is my 2 cents worth. First of all, for all the single women out there, I am a single good-looking nice guy. I am still looking for the woman of my dreams.
In my relationships and most recently with my last one, women love jerks. It is something in women's instinct that draws them to the jerks I think. I am generally a nice guy and I generally don't have a hard time getting a date.
The hitch is that if you don't act like you don't care at least once, and act as if you can get someone else, they start looking for someone else. It's the excitement of the hunt, to try and tame the beast.
One thing about women and internet dating. I know ladies who have ads on the internet, and they are asking for someone who both does not exist, nor do they really want.
I know one lady whose boyfriend, for the past 3 years, has repeatedly lied to her, cheated on her, goes out every weekend to the clubs chasing women, and knows of two girlfriends he has on the side. She is still with him and loves him. Her boyfriend does not love her, but still goes out with her; he claims to like her and has feelings for her. Actually, he can only handle a lady who he is in complete control of. And, therefore, in control of the relationship.
Tired of him, she puts a singles ad on the internet describing the man she wants. In her ad she wrote "I'm not into head games... you're either going out with me or you're not!"
She doesn't want that! She IS into head games, she DOES want a guy that cheats on her! Why would she still be with him after all this time and after what he's put her through.
Women will never admit it, but when you look at the type they continue to go out with, they DO want a jerk!
I myself, being the nice person, who I am, and will only go out with a nice girl - which I really want - have responded to women's ads on the internet. I fell into the category of the type of man they described — honest, sincere, not abusive or into drugs, etc. But I was rejected! If they want a guy like that, he'll be just like me. Take all that away - a jerk.